Contributing to the industry

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Gisborne Tairawhiti
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No beekeepers, not much aligned industry, govt depts, scientists wanting funding etc etc
I think the slant is the wrong way there @Maggie James - its not so much 'scientists wanting funding', its more the reading and understanding of issues that could be addressed by science. And yet, beekeepers essentially don't want to contribute to that. In the forthcoming ApiNZ conference, there will be a science session on what science is needed to develop the honey variety.
Obviously slanted now from the view of a scientist, but I think you'll find that scientists in NZ dont work on bee pathogens, AFB, varroa, pesticides etc because they get loads of funding - generally, they're interested/passionate about bees and bee health (and many/most are hobbiest beekeepers)
 
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Gisborne Tairawhiti
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One of the other interesting things I notice on the forum is a lot of 'what is ApiNZ doing about this?' 'What is ApiNZ doing about that?' 'Who in ApiNZ is talking to legislators about XYZ?'. Why not more 'What is NZ Beekeeping doing about . . .?'.
It seems that those who aren't members still want to share the membership benefits? Which probably goes for many industry actions
 
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And yet, beekeepers essentially don't want to contribute to that
Sorry John - I have to disagree here. There are many ways beekeepers contribute - some financially as individuals, some by belonging to an industry organisation that supports various science projects with $, hub/clubs/branches etc arranging for scientists to present to them, education providers and clubs including recent scientific papers or directing students/members to URLs as part of their learning resources. I know of many beekeepers who are not scientists that have donated hundreds of hours of their labour to scientific projects. Also many beekeepers have donated their own hives to sceintific research. Many are not in a position to contribute $, and some believe that is one the reasons why they belong to an industry group as part of supporting scientists.
 

Alastair

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I too have noticed a tendency for people who are not APINZ members to be saying "why don't APINZ do xxx". And similar.

I don't have a dog in this fight one way or another, but when I've seen these comments which do regularly crop up, that it's a little on the cheeky for non members to be complaining that the organisation is not acting on whatever they think they should be acting on.
 
117
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Gisborne Tairawhiti
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Sorry John - I have to disagree here. There are many ways beekeepers contribute - some financially as individuals, some by belonging to an industry organisation that supports various science projects with $, hub/clubs/branches etc arranging for scientists to present to them, education providers and clubs including recent scientific papers or directing students/members to URLs as part of their learning resources. I know of many beekeepers who are not scientists that have donated hundreds of hours of their labour to scientific projects. Also many beekeepers have donated their own hives to sceintific research. Many are not in a position to contribute $, and some believe that is one the reasons why they belong to an industry group as part of supporting scientists.
Your points are very valid Maggie. . . but for *those* beekeepers who are indeed members of a hub/club/branch. And yes to providing hives for scientific research - but that only goes so far. My point was that scientists may get frustrated by the disconnect of those wanting answers that science can provide . . .and those same people not wanting to contribute to the science. Given it takes money, then who should pay?
 
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Your points are very valid Maggie. . . but for *those* beekeepers who are indeed members of a hub/club/branch. And yes to providing hives for scientific research - but that only goes so far. My point was that scientists may get frustrated by the disconnect of those wanting answers that science can provide . . .and those same people not wanting to contribute to the science. Given it takes money, then who should pay?
Just a suggestion - don't beat me up. Maybe the scientists need to have a scientific meeting, and not just at conference, and use that as a fund raiser. Money is generally accumulated in clubs/branches/hubs etc by volunteers. Maybe you have to go and visit these people. Unfortunately for a variety of reasons many beekeepers will not go to conference, so no they won't see your scientific meeting.

A couple of decades ago BIG (the beekeeping interest group of FF), the Canty branch of the NBA, ChCh hobbyists, scientists from Plant & Food, and Landcare supported a major scientific meeting and general exhibition in ChCh. The theme was pollinators. It was held on the ground floor of the old chch railway station for a week. Don't ask me who headed it or the money raised - it was so long ago. On opening commercial & hobbyist beekeepers and scientists rocked up. Linda Newstrom-Lloyd did a presentation on pollinators, the hobbyists bought in a Langstroth demonstration hive and the had the entrance via piping from the roof, commercial beekeepers there also and we all volunteer hosted that night, and then during the week there was a roster. The butterfly society was there with a major display, a bird society, and scientific displays. It had been advertised extensively on radio and other media.

Maybe use a building in Auck, then Wellington and perhaps one of the CRIs at Lincoln would have room.

Another display, this time in the mid 1990s. The Canty branch of the NBA was concerned about the fact there were no young beekeepers coming into the industry. They chose Linwood shopping mall, probably because at the time it was the most busiest mall on the weekends and they did a display Sat & Sunday to attract new blood into the industry.

One club I know of hosts schools for a fee, and also pays their volunteers petrol money. Another might pay the fees of a speaker, charge a door fee to make a good profit.

So yes, in this thread we are getting an idea of who does and doesn't belong to whatever industry body, but I think perhaps there needs to be a fresh look at how you can raise this money, and perhaps revisit some ideas that in the past were very successful. Overall, I do think that beekeepers know that they need scientists, but I think your biggest impediments are that people are v time poor, many are in donor fatigue, and money is tight.

No sorry, I can't volunteer. The last 18 months for the first time since I have left school, I have not done any volunteer work and am loving decluttering my life instead.
 
117
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Gisborne Tairawhiti
Experience
Researcher
New Zealand Beekeeping Inc has a small profile. ApiNZ is in fore front, often in the media. Which is maybe why some non members expect something?
You all forget, discussion on this forum is also a valid contribution toward the industry.

What, would that valid contribution be the whingeing? Or the complaining? Or the corporate-bashing?? :) :)

Fair call on the media profile, Gino. But I think it also attracts the tall-poppy haters as well. It's funny in a way. I've never heard anyone say 'god, I really dislike the CEO Karin Kos or that board member Dennis Crowley' . . and yet, they claim they don't like/hate ApiNZ. Its as if these ApiNZ people are two-faced . . .one side to you and the other when they get in the meeting room/board room.

As someone once said, if I was two-faced - would I be wearing this one?
 
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ApiNZ is otfen in the media shouting how good they are and what they are doing. It is a fair question to ask of someone who shouts from the roof tops "look how good we are". Its about walking the talk.

I would also like to point out that many of the Apihub/NBA branches have gone. It was at branch level where the funding for research was done.

It was a goal of some of the ApiNZ board members, to have better financial controls in place around Hub/branch fund raising. This seemed to annoy some people, who were often the main fund raisers, so they stop fund raising or moved on. (some controls are needed but just how much).


I was watching rural update on tv a few days ago and a large segment was on AFB dog training that the SNI group have been supporting
I know that the old Waikato branch which morphed into a NZBI branch still fund raising and supporting research

So JohnF in my view ApiNZ is a dying duck, go and support the grass roots rather than the suits who have large overdrafts
 
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Alastair

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The cantancerous nature of this thread is a typical example, normal NZ beekeeping politics. This has been and will continue to be to the detriment of us all.

Um, I don't believe we are arguing.. or are we?? I am not trying to trash ApiNZ-

Gino it appeared you doubted me. I assume you have continued to follow the thread. So, need I say more..
 
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Your points are very valid Maggie. . . but for *those* beekeepers who are indeed members of a hub/club/branch. And yes to providing hives for scientific research - but that only goes so far. My point was that scientists may get frustrated by the disconnect of those wanting answers that science can provide . . .and those same people not wanting to contribute to the science. Given it takes money, then who should pay?
John - I have always been supportive of research and the scientific community. Yes, it does take money, but you need to work out how you are going to get that money and what scientists are going to research. From my experience, grass roots are major contributors to science, but you are not going to get money by alienating people. Grass roots, whether it be an organisation or an individual beekeeper, fund those that they have a rapport with and whose cause they believe in. Not all donors sing from the rooftops that they have donated. I see some comments in this thread from some very discrete donors.

Grass roots accumulate money because they generally have an accountant on their committee with foresight to strategic management, plus someone who is charismatic to get their members on board with volunteer issues. They are very particular as to what they donate to and/or support. It would be a shame to see the demise of science in our industry, but you need to get out, build rapport and shake hands. The most successful scientific research programmes I have seen have that rapport with commercial and hobbyist beekeepers.

Hmm..... this thread seems to be going way off topic. I can only say what organisations I belong to once..... I also belong to a large hobbyist bee club - does that count? Also the Southbridge Bowling Club Friday Night Euchre Competition at which I am very good at winning the 1 lb of West Coast whitebait (yummy).
 
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What, would that valid contribution be the whingeing? Or the complaining? Or the corporate-bashing?? :) :)

Fair call on the media profile, Gino. But I think it also attracts the tall-poppy haters as well. It's funny in a way. I've never heard anyone say 'god, I really dislike the CEO Karin Kos or that board member Dennis Crowley' . . and yet, they claim they don't like/hate ApiNZ. Its as if these ApiNZ people are two-faced . . .one side to you and the other when they get in the meeting room/board room.

As someone once said, if I was two-faced - would I be wearing this one?
Whingeing, complaining , corporate bashing ...... Nah ..... what you are seeing is a point of view from the peasants. ..... I looked ino APINZ memebership this evening. $172.## plus $!.15 per hive , so our annual sub is about $1500.
Add to that RMP compliance of $3000, AFB levy of $1200 ...... it all adds up ..... I'm not complaining, just stating the facts..././ so then I looked at what AINZ achieved in 202o ....
Updates and tools to help operate during covid
Looking for a solution to the small parcel issues
looking to introduce a plan to reduce verification requirements
NZ honey story
Aprenticeship training
Lobbyied bekpr needs at high level
Bee health for new pesticide applications
Bee aware month
Winter webinar for important industry compliance issues
Advocated on behalf of members on local and regional byelaw issues.

Thats not bad. It's actually quite good ..... but in a way it's reinventing the wheel to what we had when Beekeeprs were aligned with Federated Farmers ..... for $400.

I'm neither whingeing or complaining, just giving you JimmyC's view.

We are still members of the Feds.
 
50
29
Katikati
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What, would that valid contribution be the whingeing? Or the complaining? Or the corporate-bashing?? :) :)

Fair call on the media profile, Gino. But I think it also attracts the tall-poppy haters as well. It's funny in a way. I've never heard anyone say 'god, I really dislike the CEO Karin Kos or that board member Dennis Crowley' . . and yet, they claim they don't like/hate ApiNZ. Its as if these ApiNZ people are two-faced . . .one side to you and the other when they get in the meeting room/board room.

As someone once said, if I was two-faced - would I be wearing this one?
?
Am I moaning/complaining?
Just asking who's involved in ApiNZ.

I do think this forum adds value overall, there have been lots of past contributions that are thoughtful/helpful.
 
117
160
Gisborne Tairawhiti
Experience
Researcher
ApiNZ is otfen in the media shouting how good they are and what they are doing. It is a fair question to ask of someone who shouts from the roof tops "look how good we are". Its about walking the talk.
I'll call you out on that one Morporks - being in the media is not for the sole purpose of shouting how good they are. If you look up the latest information on Google news with Apiculture NZ, you have Barry Foster (chair of the @ApiNZ Science & Research) talking about the colony loss survey and Apiculture NZ talking on the amount of honey that would need to be eaten with the levels of glyphosphate found.

So, you claim it is just about how good ApiNZ is? Sorry, fake news there on that claim
 
117
160
Gisborne Tairawhiti
Experience
Researcher
Just a suggestion - don't beat me up. Maybe the scientists need to have a scientific meeting, and not just at conference, and use that as a fund raiser. Money is generally accumulated in clubs/branches/hubs etc by volunteers. Maybe you have to go and visit these people. Unfortunately for a variety of reasons many beekeepers will not go to conference, so no they won't see your scientific meeting.
Always keen to hear what has been done before Maggie. But 'maybe you have to go and visit the people in the clubs/branches/hubs'? I think you were at the last Canterbury meeting on AFB. Which had a researcher who paid their own way to speak there. And I was happy to do so
 
117
160
Gisborne Tairawhiti
Experience
Researcher
John - I have always been supportive of research and the scientific community. Yes, it does take money, but you need to work out how you are going to get that money and what scientists are going to research. From my experience, grass roots are major contributors to science, but you are not going to get money by alienating people. Grass roots, whether it be an organisation or an individual beekeeper, fund those that they have a rapport with and whose cause they believe in. Not all donors sing from the rooftops that they have donated. I see some comments in this thread from some very discrete donors.

Grass roots accumulate money because they generally have an accountant on their committee with foresight to strategic management, plus someone who is charismatic to get their members on board with volunteer issues. They are very particular as to what they donate to and/or support. It would be a shame to see the demise of science in our industry, but you need to get out, build rapport and shake hands. The most successful scientific research programmes I have seen have that rapport with commercial and hobbyist beekeepers.

Hmm..... this thread seems to be going way off topic. I can only say what organisations I belong to once..... I also belong to a large hobbyist bee club - does that count? Also the Southbridge Bowling Club Friday Night Euchre Competition at which I am very good at winning the 1 lb of West Coast whitebait (yummy).
You misunderstand me Maggie. I am not trying to alienate people - and nor am I seeking any funds for any work that we do. I am trying to provoke thoughts, opinions and conversation. Its a wee bit of chicken and egg - scientists are often writing grants for funding or reports to complete funding and so yes, often not the time to get out and build the relationships among those who may not have a cohesive funding.

I fully appreciate the constraints on beekeeping finances. There are possibly many options to lift our industry - co-ops, cooperation but look across at kiwifruit and what science provided there.
Never was this more evident at the recent funeral of one of the leading NZ scientists on Psa when the head of Seeka (the largest kiwifruit postharvest company here) flew down to give a eulogy.
 
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You misunderstand me Maggie. I am not trying to alienate people - and nor am I seeking any funds for any work that we do. I am trying to provoke thoughts, opinions and conversation. Its a wee bit of chicken and egg - scientists are often writing grants for funding or reports to complete funding and so yes, often not the time to get out and build the relationships among those who may not have a cohesive funding.

I fully appreciate the constraints on beekeeping finances. There are possibly many options to lift our industry - co-ops, cooperation but look across at kiwifruit and what science provided there.
Never was this more evident at the recent funeral of one of the leading NZ scientists on Psa when the head of Seeka (the largest kiwifruit postharvest company here) flew down to give a eulogy.
Thanks. Unfortunately I was having difficulty in trying to work out what point you were making.
 
117
160
Gisborne Tairawhiti
Experience
Researcher
Interesting time last night - went to hear my son in a regional speech final on racism and how to combat it. Very proud of his excellent speech - and he was runner-up. But the winner talked about being a in a waka, rowing to the glittering new world they could glimpse just over the horizon. But the annoyance and frustration that others in the waka either had paddles going backward or paddles out of the water altogether.
This was the analogy for the racism in New Zealand - I also thought it a rather good analogy for the apiculture industry in New Zealand. Because like it or not, everyone (commercial beekeepers, packers, scientists, hobbiests, regulators, MPI) is in the industry.
Talented orators last night (16-18yrs old) - they had the option to use the quote "He waka eke noa" - essentially, 'together we row as one'.

Smart kids
 
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117
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Gisborne Tairawhiti
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Researcher
?
Am I moaning/complaining?
Just asking who's involved in ApiNZ.

I do think this forum adds value overall, there have been lots of past contributions that are thoughtful/helpful.
My comment was facetious Gino - I should have added more :) perhaps.
I think the forum is very useful to me as a hobbiest and learning of industry issues and pressures. But more on a personal level. At an industry level, I'm not sure how much the needle is shifted . . . .
 


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