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5,519
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canterbury
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Tonite I am in a recalitrant mood and thought I would bring to the fore issues that we all deal with and yet few are prepared to mouth off about.

Health and Safety.

H and S is a 21st century disease that is crippling the country worse than Covid.
It has spawned an industry that has added billions of dollars to the the country's running costs.
It has spawned a generation that is too scared to walk out their front door with out Hi Viz....
And it has produced a work force that lacks the courage to go forth and risk an unknown that might reap a reward they can only aspire to view on Netflix.

As I enter the last few years of my workable life it's interesting to look back as to how far we have come.
In my final few years of schooling H& S was un heard of.
My mother used to give me one pound to buy a few beers up in North Wales where a friend and I used to Hitch Hike to on a friday night to climb for the weekend.
We were too young to drink .... but she knew it was a safe place for us on a wet and cold night.
As too did my teachers when they took us up there .... piled us sixteen year olds into the tranny van for the pilgramige down to the Clogwyn bar where the rain nrunoff spewd out of the back wall and we got happy on Newcastle Brown .
A few years later they piled us into the same old van and we went continental ..... high altitude down in the Swiss alps ..... hanging on rock anchors and ice walls cracking Monty Python one liners when the going got dodgy.
And God forbid, we shared sleepiong bags with our teachers.

Today Hammy and Barny would be done for child abuse.

And later , roaring around the Aussie outback in an open topped Landy with a rural roll cage and 1" hemp rope lassoeing micky bulls....
Just watch out for the loop on the deck James, or you'll be dead.... said the Boss.
The was no induction 101, no Hi Viz .....
Just a trip 100 mile south to hear Slim sing on a w/e.
Or the the son of the Boss my old man worked for in NSW after the war directing me to take the old Albion truck and trailer in to town with a load of wheat on ...
.'And get yer licence while you're there.'
I'm still pretty proud to have that Class 5.
I think it cost me five bucks.

Formative years where risk was risk and those who made it went on to carve out empires.

Some where , seems like the younger generation has lost something that makes them bold and prepared to follow a dream ....with the excuse that it is corporately un acceptable.
 
Last edited:
5,519
5,836
canterbury
Experience
Commercial
U HUh..... The Cloggy ..... it was around the back.... past the gents with the mountain as the back wall.... and a slate floor..... bottle of Newcastle Brown for33p 🙈 I used to get 3 for a pound.
Mum was'nt sure what beer cost !
My wife blames her for all my sins❤️
 
148
120
Taupo
Experience
Hobbyist
Totally agree mate, we used to be able to use common-sense and get things done, and I don't usually publicly comment, because it has become such an industry, that someone who depends on it for a job, will shout down anyone who criticises the way H&S has gone. To give an example of how silly it has gotten, we had a H&S man tell us not to walk with our hands in our pockets as we might trip over. I nearly puked when I heard that.
 
244
174
Mid Canterbury
Experience
Semi Commercial
we had a H&S man tell us not to walk with our hands in our pockets as we might trip over.
Did he allude to what you might trip over?

Even trying to deal with shop assistant's sometimes, common sense does not prevail, there's always some bureaucratic rule. I sometimes wonder whether NZ Post is trying their best to go out of business. No wonder people are becoming introverted, it easier not to say anything, because you run the risk of being targeted. I sometimes think if Orson Welles were still alive, and if he could get a flight to NZ and space in MIQ, he could come here and rewrite "1984".
 
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Alastair

Founder Member
8,080
9,287
Auckland
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I gave up employing people cos of the rules being added around that, I wouldn't want to be a landlord any more, and my bee business is now a small one man retirement hobby so I can dodge most of the crap around H&S, glad full retirement is an option any time I choose, and I wouldn't want to be a young guy starting out now.

I remember many years ago an American guy who came here and started a business, telling me NZ was the best place in the world to run a business. He said that in America he had regular audits and a wealth of red tape that just drained him mentally. He then came to NZ and after several years in his new business, told me it's great. All you have to do here is put your name on the door, and you have a business. Doubt he would say that now.
 
19
23
Whakatane
Experience
Commercial
Spent yesterday filling in forms so we can do pollination half a day getting H & S details out of our folder. Answering questions for those who like corporate!!!!!!!!. Was complaining at end of day sign off to worker 28 year old about the waste of time on paper work that is meaningless.
He asked me if I was familiar with the term "B...S.. workers", (I gave him a strange look) he says. It is the term for those workers whose whole job is B.S.
So there you have it. Labels for everything.
Half a day on one company box ticking and the only workers are hubby and I and the excellent casual that I wish we could afford as a full timer.
 

Alastair

Founder Member
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Auckland
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Yes for a one person or small operation, I don't think the bereaurocrats realise just how hard all this stuff is. Where they inhabit it's their full time job, they don't have to also generate real product and income.
 
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tommy dave

Gold
BOP Club
165
183
mostly wellington, sometimes dunedin
Experience
Hobbyist
Tonite I am in a recalitrant mood and thought I would bring to the fore issues that we all deal with and yet few are prepared to mouth off about.

Health and Safety.

H and S is a 21st century disease that is crippling the country worse than Covid.
It has spawned an industry that has added billions of dollars to the the country's running costs.
It has spawned a generation that is too scared to walk out their front door with out Hi Viz....
And it has produced a work force that lacks the courage to go forth and risk an unknown that might reap a reward they can only aspire to view on Netflix.
agree a lot.
in particular i struggle with some absolute basics. I understand why some best practice standards and some basic rules and regs make sense in an industry such as forestry that was killing and maiming far too many. But it has gone far too far. As an example, why would a small crown agency that is office based have multiple staff dedicated to health and safety. There's only so much damage a paper cut can do. I feel like there is a good example with (i'll get the details a bit wrong) with ACC where outfits with a get record can get reduced rates, similar seems sensible with H&S requirements (hell, and RMP paperwork etc etc). As for risk. Eating is risky, might choke, get sick, etc. We still eat...

also - i've never made it the british isles. Climbed a little in europe. Cloggy and other places have long been on my 'one day' list... a few friends from sheffield and surrounds who i've met along the way still climb, and keep telling me i'm well overdue for a decent climbing trip to their part of the world. They also revel in pointing out that although i might not be in climbing (or any good) shape, that there's plenty of easy stuff to be done
 
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Daley

Platinum
25
44
Gizzy
Experience
Commercial
Tonite I am in a recalitrant mood and thought I would bring to the fore issues that we all deal with and yet few are prepared to mouth off about.

Health and Safety.

H and S is a 21st century disease that is crippling the country worse than Covid.
It has spawned an industry that has added billions of dollars to the the country's running costs.
It has spawned a generation that is too scared to walk out their front door with out Hi Viz....
And it has produced a work force that lacks the courage to go forth and risk an unknown that might reap a reward they can only aspire to view on Netflix.

As I enter the last few years of my workable life it's interesting to look back as to how far we have come.
In my final few years of schooling H& S was un heard of.
My mother used to give me one pound to buy a few beers up in North Wales where a friend and I used to Hitch Hike to on a friday night to climb for the weekend.
We were too young to drink .... but she knew it was a safe place for us on a wet and cold night.
As too did my teachers when they took us up there .... piled us sixteen year olds into the tranny van for the pilgramige down to the Clogwyn bar where the rain nrunoff spewd out of the back wall and we got happy on Newcastle Brown .
A few years later they piled us into the same old van and we went continental ..... high altitude down in the Swiss alps ..... hanging on rock anchors and ice walls cracking Monty Python one liners when the going got dodgy.
And God forbid, we shared sleepiong bags with our teachers.

Today Hammy and Barny would be done for child abuse.

And later , roaring around the Aussie outback in an open topped Landy with a rural roll cage and 1" hemp rope lassoeing micky bulls....
Just watch out for the loop on the deck James, or you'll be dead.... said the Boss.
The was no induction 101, no Hi Viz .....
Just a trip 100 mile south to hear Slim sing on a w/e.
Or the the son of the Boss my old man worked for in NSW after the war directing me to take the old Albion truck and trailer in to town with a load of wheat on ...
.'And get yer licence while you're there.'
I'm still pretty proud to have that Class 5.
I think it cost me five bucks.

Formative years where risk was risk and those who made it went on to carve out empires.

Some where , seems like the younger generation has lost something that makes them bold and prepared to follow a dream ....with the excuse that it is corporately un acceptable.
I think the main issue we have now is that most of the sensible people are either stunned into silence or they really have no interest in being politicians.
We need to have a rethink about the types of people that we put in power of all political pursuasions and realise that the one thing that most have in common is that they have never worked a day in their lives and it becomes glaringly apparent the importance of standing up and putting yourself out there when you disagree, consequences be damned.
People who want to be politicians are perhaps the least qualified to do so.
 

tudorcd

Founder Member
Gold
15
35
Otago Peninsula
Experience
Hobbyist
Did he allude to what you might trip over?

Even trying to deal with shop assistant's sometimes, common sense does not prevail, there's always some bureaucratic rule. I sometimes wonder whether NZ Post is trying their best to go out of business. No wonder people are becoming introverted, it easier not to say anything, because you run the risk of being targeted. I sometimes think if Orson Welles were still alive, and if he could get a flight to NZ and space in MIQ, he could come here and rewrite "1984".
Aithor was George Orwell, but your point is well taken
 
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tommy dave

Gold
BOP Club
165
183
mostly wellington, sometimes dunedin
Experience
Hobbyist
I think the main issue we have now is that most of the sensible people are either stunned into silence or they really have no interest in being politicians.
We need to have a rethink about the types of people that we put in power of all political pursuasions and realise that the one thing that most have in common is that they have never worked a day in their lives and it becomes glaringly apparent the importance of standing up and putting yourself out there when you disagree, consequences be damned.
People who want to be politicians are perhaps the least qualified to do so.
there was a really interesting/good article (i think irrespective of your political persuasion) today on the spinoff: ‘Paranoid storms’: Judith Collins’ former press secretary on National, leadership and oblivion , it links this article which i hadn't previously read: Metro — The National Party Death Spiral

i'm not asking or suggesting that you agree or disagree with the articles in general, but this bit rung true to me (and i don't think it's restricted to the national party!) - you could replace "national" with "labour" in the paragraph following, and maybe the groups referenced - but for both parties the comment about people who are doing things, getting things done, and the out-of-touch and frankly a little weird description of those remaining applies...

"Whatever the case, the local school trustees, Rotary chairs, Federated Farmers leaders and other ordinary community-oriented people have drifted away from a party that offers them less influence over their district’s destiny than they have in their day jobs. There are no longer any farmers on National’s board and only one South Islander. It has made National Party activists, and some of the MPs they’ve selected, not just out of touch with the median voter’s concerns but, frankly, a little weird."

also @Daley - sounds like we get to vote for you in 2023?
 
244
174
Mid Canterbury
Experience
Semi Commercial
Tonite I am in a recalitrant mood and thought I would bring to the fore issues that we all deal with and yet few are prepared to mouth off about.

Health and Safety.

H and S is a 21st century disease that is crippling the country worse than Covid.
It has spawned an industry that has added billions of dollars to the the country's running costs.
It has spawned a generation that is too scared to walk out their front door with out Hi Viz....
And it has produced a work force that lacks the courage to go forth and risk an unknown that might reap a reward they can only aspire to view on Netflix.

As I enter the last few years of my workable life it's interesting to look back as to how far we have come.
In my final few years of schooling H& S was un heard of.
My mother used to give me one pound to buy a few beers up in North Wales where a friend and I used to Hitch Hike to on a friday night to climb for the weekend.
We were too young to drink .... but she knew it was a safe place for us on a wet and cold night.
As too did my teachers when they took us up there .... piled us sixteen year olds into the tranny van for the pilgramige down to the Clogwyn bar where the rain nrunoff spewd out of the back wall and we got happy on Newcastle Brown .
A few years later they piled us into the same old van and we went continental ..... high altitude down in the Swiss alps ..... hanging on rock anchors and ice walls cracking Monty Python one liners when the going got dodgy.
And God forbid, we shared sleepiong bags with our teachers.

Today Hammy and Barny would be done for child abuse.

And later , roaring around the Aussie outback in an open topped Landy with a rural roll cage and 1" hemp rope lassoeing micky bulls....
Just watch out for the loop on the deck James, or you'll be dead.... said the Boss.
The was no induction 101, no Hi Viz .....
Just a trip 100 mile south to hear Slim sing on a w/e.
Or the the son of the Boss my old man worked for in NSW after the war directing me to take the old Albion truck and trailer in to town with a load of wheat on ...
.'And get yer licence while you're there.'
I'm still pretty proud to have that Class 5.
I think it cost me five bucks.

Formative years where risk was risk and those who made it went on to carve out empires.

Some where , seems like the younger generation has lost something that makes them bold and prepared to follow a dream ....with the excuse that it is corporately un acceptable.
Because there are so many rules about what you can't do, they have lost the ability to think. And if you want to apply for anything that has a rule, it costs a small fortune and takes mega amounts of time to do the paperwork
Aithor was George Orwell, but your point is well taken
Whooops!
I think the main issue we have now is that most of the sensible people are either stunned into silence or they really have no interest in being politicians.
We need to have a rethink about the types of people that we put in power of all political pursuasions and realise that the one thing that most have in common is that they have never worked a day in their lives and it becomes glaringly apparent the importance of standing up and putting yourself out there when you disagree, consequences be damned.
People who want to be politicians are perhaps the least qualified to do so.
I think that most of the politicians today seem to be lawyers
 
3,367
6,235
Hawkes Bay
Experience
Commercial
A hard case ex doc and wildlife mate of mine had to do a health and safety course when he was still at doc. It was the usual rubbish but at the end of it the instructor asked if there were any other hazards that people could think of and my mate said that in autumn the leaves fell down from the trees and they might land in your eye and cause damage.
The instructor carefully took notes on this new hazard.
 
5,519
5,836
canterbury
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Cenotaph Corner in l the pass one of the best climbs I did in Wales
I always liked some of the guide book descriptions ......dry and matter of fact ......
"A scrapy start leads to an exciting groove.
Belay under the roof, then traverse left on finger holds before continuing up the main vertical ."
 
5,519
5,836
canterbury
Experience
Commercial
Over the last few years we have hosted a trail ride once a year for Mad motorcyclists who like to do daring deeds around the hills on their two wheel stallions.
It's run on a 50/50 share basis with the organiser. We get 50% and feed it back into the community as a fund raiser.

Last ride we had over 400 motorsickles . It was a blast as people let rip for the day after a week slaving away on the tools in town.

Sadly, it won't be happening again.

We are reliant on our neighbours with the forestry blocks allowinbg us access to ride tracks to make loops and enduro options, but it seems the public liabilty and insurance issues have become too onersome, and much as the landowners would lke to grant access, there hands are tied by
protocol.
What a load of gobar.

I am saddened that society's options for R&R are slowly being eroded by H&S issues and people not prepared to live with a little risk.
No wonder we have so much depression and madness within our society.
 

Trevor Gillbanks

Staff member
Founder Member
Gold
10,586
7,168
Palmerston North
Experience
Hobbyist
Over the last few years we have hosted a trail ride once a year for Mad motorcyclists who like to do daring deeds around the hills on their two wheel stallions.
It's run on a 50/50 share basis with the organiser. We get 50% and feed it back into the community as a fund raiser.

Last ride we had over 400 motorsickles . It was a blast as people let rip for the day after a week slaving away on the tools in town.

Sadly, it won't be happening again.

We are reliant on our neighbours with the forestry blocks allowinbg us access to ride tracks to make loops and enduro options, but it seems the public liabilty and insurance issues have become too onersome, and much as the landowners would lke to grant access, there hands are tied by
protocol.
What a load of gobar.

I am saddened that society's options for R&R are slowly being eroded by H&S issues and people not prepared to live with a little risk.
No wonder we have so much depression and madness within our society.
I don't know whether to give you post a thumbs up or a sad face. I certainly appreciate the sentiment in the last 2 sentences.
 
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