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New Zealand Beekeeping Forums
Commercial Beekeeping in New Zealand
oxalic acid glycerin strips testing
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<blockquote data-quote="tristan" data-source="post: 12219" data-attributes="member: 30"><p>even tho testing was minimal a few things have been learnt. </p><p></p><p>does it work? yes, but with caveats.</p><p>i found no downsides with the bees, and even with deliberate overdosing there has been no mortality. that hive is just fine. </p><p></p><p>however i can see where mistakes can be made. </p><p>one could well be overheating the mixture. even with a double boiler setup you can very easily get the bottom to hot while to top is not hot enough. doing it with a plain pot would be very problematic. very easy to make the mix break down into formic acid which certainly would cause brood and queen failure.</p><p>even with a double boiler, mixing is critical and needs to come up to temp slowly. i'm not sure if pre heating glycerin past the max temp is a good idea.</p><p></p><p> i did a small test by leaving mix sitting on the bench at home for a few weeks (@~50%RH). the glycerin slowly went liquid. that has been mentioned by others. in the hive it soaks up moisture (cellulose really likes to grab and hold water, which is probably why Swedish sponges work so well even in dry conditions) and that makes the acid come out to the surface. i notice some strips had "grown" white fluff of acid in places where the bees did not get to it (like growing Condy's crystals). </p><p>this also brings into question "wet" strips. i wonder if people have been leaving them out (or even the glycerin) in the humid air. as this works by the hive adding water to it, you cannot have water added before hand. so keeping it dry is critical. wet strips increases the spread-ability of the OAE so if its wet the hive can get a very big dose which could cause problems. plus the whole idea is extended release not instant release.</p><p>imho if you leave the top off the glycerin container and it soaks up moisture, its really not useable.</p><p></p><p>the other big question in all this is how did they come up with the "3 staples per brood box" figure. why not 2 or 4? anyone seen any data on that?</p><p>my testing was with 4 staples to make sure there was enough width across the hive. i hope people are not selecting a weaker dose to cut costs, which is what seams to be advertised. also be aware stables are not dirt cheap as some like to make out.</p><p></p><p>the staples last about 4 weeks, so that requires a double treat to get enough brood hatching. thats also noted in randy olivers testing.</p><p>also his testing showed they seam to be a little less effective than the 1:1 pads they have been using. </p><p></p><p>but whats really interesting is the amount of acid in the hive (info not on randy's site just yet).</p><p>the 1:1 pads seam to be quite low in acid on the bees. the carboard staples have higher amounts despite having a lot less acid in them. (where is all the OA going from the pads ?) also the ratios, the staples in 1:1 have higher acid on bees than 1:1.5 ratio. with the sponge the 1:2 ratio had more than the 1:1. so is the 1:1 ratio staples more effective in killing mites than the 1:1.5?</p><p></p><p>heaps of testing to be done. i hope randy will have his spring results out before we get into next spring.</p><p>but the big thing is testing it in big scale to see all the other things you cannot see in small scale.</p><p></p><p>i think the huge advantage with this is treating during honey flows. highly suitable for beeks with early flows.</p><p>also mid season treatments (even just a single treat), this allows you to autumn treat later and helps combat mite drift into the hives.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tristan, post: 12219, member: 30"] even tho testing was minimal a few things have been learnt. does it work? yes, but with caveats. i found no downsides with the bees, and even with deliberate overdosing there has been no mortality. that hive is just fine. however i can see where mistakes can be made. one could well be overheating the mixture. even with a double boiler setup you can very easily get the bottom to hot while to top is not hot enough. doing it with a plain pot would be very problematic. very easy to make the mix break down into formic acid which certainly would cause brood and queen failure. even with a double boiler, mixing is critical and needs to come up to temp slowly. i'm not sure if pre heating glycerin past the max temp is a good idea. i did a small test by leaving mix sitting on the bench at home for a few weeks (@~50%RH). the glycerin slowly went liquid. that has been mentioned by others. in the hive it soaks up moisture (cellulose really likes to grab and hold water, which is probably why Swedish sponges work so well even in dry conditions) and that makes the acid come out to the surface. i notice some strips had "grown" white fluff of acid in places where the bees did not get to it (like growing Condy's crystals). this also brings into question "wet" strips. i wonder if people have been leaving them out (or even the glycerin) in the humid air. as this works by the hive adding water to it, you cannot have water added before hand. so keeping it dry is critical. wet strips increases the spread-ability of the OAE so if its wet the hive can get a very big dose which could cause problems. plus the whole idea is extended release not instant release. imho if you leave the top off the glycerin container and it soaks up moisture, its really not useable. the other big question in all this is how did they come up with the "3 staples per brood box" figure. why not 2 or 4? anyone seen any data on that? my testing was with 4 staples to make sure there was enough width across the hive. i hope people are not selecting a weaker dose to cut costs, which is what seams to be advertised. also be aware stables are not dirt cheap as some like to make out. the staples last about 4 weeks, so that requires a double treat to get enough brood hatching. thats also noted in randy olivers testing. also his testing showed they seam to be a little less effective than the 1:1 pads they have been using. but whats really interesting is the amount of acid in the hive (info not on randy's site just yet). the 1:1 pads seam to be quite low in acid on the bees. the carboard staples have higher amounts despite having a lot less acid in them. (where is all the OA going from the pads ?) also the ratios, the staples in 1:1 have higher acid on bees than 1:1.5 ratio. with the sponge the 1:2 ratio had more than the 1:1. so is the 1:1 ratio staples more effective in killing mites than the 1:1.5? heaps of testing to be done. i hope randy will have his spring results out before we get into next spring. but the big thing is testing it in big scale to see all the other things you cannot see in small scale. i think the huge advantage with this is treating during honey flows. highly suitable for beeks with early flows. also mid season treatments (even just a single treat), this allows you to autumn treat later and helps combat mite drift into the hives. [/QUOTE]
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