AFB plan review

[JohnF]

why dont you just get on the phone so you can get it cleared up. Face to face is the best

Been at a conference. What did I miss?
Yes, phone calls are great. Are you under M for 'Morporks' or P for 'Porks' there Mor?

Know what you mean nobody taking the time and effort to understand the other points of view, which then just breaks down to childish game of who can get in the last word with the sharpest needle

Sack the lot of them I say

Nothing wrong with debating it. There's no point scoring - it really is trying to understand what the issues are. And I still don't get the reply to 'what are the specific governance issues'. Not what does google call governance or what are comments in this thread - what are the AFB PMP governance issues that have perceived faults.

 

[JohnF]

The change to a hive levy has been poorly thought though
Hive levy is hard and costly to police
The timing of the declaration of number of hives is crap and forces honest people to lie.

Some people may have got there honey off and wintered down and have a good handle on whats what.
Others are still getting the last of the years honey flow, still re queening etc and will not be able to give an accurate count for a little while yet

We should be going back to the apiary levy model

Even with the new levy, it was the beekeepers who advocated for the change back to hive levy . . .to discourage high numbers in single apiaries. I remember @Otto being particularly keen for the hive levy

 

[JohnF]

Beekeepers are just full of reasons not to do something.

And with that, Trevor may have just summed up commodity levies, research to improve the industry, AFBPMP, any levies and indeed beekeeping since the age of time.

 

[southbee]

Aah .... The Great Unwashed.
Would they be the largest contingent of Beekeepers?
So , step one ... Unite the tribes.

Yes, I think that would refer to all of us, all the 'ordinary' people. Wouldn't be an easy task to unite the great unwashed beekeepers!

 

[John B]

Uniting the five lost tribes of the bee world.
Apis Doaswesayith
Apis Dontwanttoith
Apis Managmentitis
Apis Governmentitis Qualititis
Apis Unwashedith Maximis

To become
Apis mellifera Unitedith

Knock a few heads together, do a bit of gene splicing, hold a few hui and I reckon we would have it done in only two or three lifetimes.

 

[Otto]

Even with the new levy, it was the beekeepers who advocated for the change back to hive levy . . .to discourage high numbers in single apiaries. I remember @Otto being particularly keen for the hive levy

I sure was and still am.
The thing I really don't understand is the argument that this levy is somehow a large financial burden. When you look through all the income and expenditure of running a beekeeping business the levy really is a pretty trivial sum of money... and it is for something so very important.

 

[John B]

In these hard times any cost can be one cost too many. Is the levy good value for money, well for me it's just under $1000 and as far as I know the authority has never spent a cent checking any of my hives.
So far it sounds I am throwing my money away but then last spring I found seven AFB hives on four different occasions in the same apiary.
Seven hives even today is still a lot of money plus four trips to pick them up plus digging four holes and supervising four fires.
All those costs are mine and still no benefit from paying a levy.
I don't see many benefits of paying the levy because most of those benefits happen out of my sight.
I won't see the AP1 issuing an inspection notice for neighbouring apiarys after I reported my AFB find.
I won't see the AP2 inspecting a neighbouring apiary and finding robbed out AFB hives.
I won't see the massive amount of work they did checking that beekeepers other hives and sorting out a huge mess.
And hopefully I won't see any more AFB from that particular source.

I do see the benefit of paying the levy. It's not what it cost you, it's what it doesn't cost you that is the real benefit.

 

[James]

Yes, I think that would refer to all of us, all the 'ordinary' people. Wouldn't be an easy task to unite the great unwashed beekeepers!

Well of course , Rotorua is a great venue as they have any amount of Bath Houses... perhaps a meeting in the bath house should have been arranged at conference. ......Karen, Jane, Clifton, Roger......room for one more small person .....MPI perhaps .
Hats left at the door, cozzies optional, because as we all know, we are all pretty similar with a shared dream.

 

[StephenB]

I sure was and still am.
The thing I really don't understand is the argument that this levy is somehow a large financial burden. When you look through all the income and expenditure of running a beekeeping business the levy really is a pretty trivial sum of money... and it is for something so very important.

Otto
When taken on its own it may not be large
But when you but together with poor honey prices if you can sell it, its not much of a income
Increase in MPI residue testing costs ($1500)
RMP fee cant remember what it is
2 x RMP audits costing ($4000)
Electronic Declaration costs (say 500)
Extra weeks sick pay
Extra public holiday
ACC fees ($3000 )
AFB PMP levy ($1000 plus)
Varroa strip costs (5000)
Lab testing cost (skys the limit)
Insurance cost ($5000 plus)
RUC
Fuel $10 000
and so on
Most of these costs a business has no control over.

Wages 60K per person
I person per 500 hives I am told

30 000kgs honey @ $4 is 120 000

There is not a lot of money in basic beekeeping.
Please take time to understand the costs before thinking the AFB levy is a trivial amount.

 

[JohnF]

Interesting cost breakdown Stephen. And when you break it down like that - then @Otto is bang on. It’s trivial in the scheme of things you have laid out in excellent detail.
Does this mean that the levy is too high? Previously the agency just broke even. We would still have Apiweb and contracted services. I’d wager the complaints would be longer, louder and higher than any currently.

 

[yesbut]

Please take time to understand the costs before thinking the AFB levy is a trivial amount.

You don't mention the cost of losing AFB hives....

 

[StephenB]

You don't mention the cost of losing AFB hives....

where theres live stock there's dead stock

 

[Otto]

I run a beekeeping business. I am well aware of costs and for my business i consider the levy cost to be pretty minor. Like John B I don't necessarily see much for what I spend on the levy but I believe in what the plan is trying to achieve and consider it money well spent. Thankfully I have more than just bulk honey sales on the income side of my ledger...

 

[Otto]

where theres live stock there's dead stock

I am very glad I dont have my bees anywhere near yours if that is your attitude to AFB. There are many reasons why a beekeeper can come across a dead hive, AFB should never be one of them.

 

[James]

Otto
When taken on its own it may not be large
But when you but together with poor honey prices if you can sell it, its not much of a income
Increase in MPI residue testing costs ($1500)
RMP fee cant remember what it is
2 x RMP audits costing ($4000)
Electronic Declaration costs (say 500)
Extra weeks sick pay
Extra public holiday
ACC fees ($3000 )
AFB PMP levy ($1000 plus)
Varroa strip costs (5000)
Lab testing cost (skys the limit)
Insurance cost ($5000 plus)
RUC
Fuel $10 000
and so on
Most of these costs a business has no control over.

Wages 60K per person
I person per 500 hives I am told

30 000kgs honey @ $4 is 120 000

There is not a lot of money in basic beekeeping.
Please take time to understand the costs before thinking the AFB levy is a trivial amount.

You missed out the sub for wednesday golf.

 

[StephenB]

I am very glad I dont have my bees anywhere near yours if that is your attitude to AFB. There are many reasons why a beekeeper can come across a dead hive, AFB should never be one of them.

know the feeling

 

[StephenB]

Previously the agency just broke even.

Are you suggesting the agency should be a for profit organization ?

 

[JohnF]

Are you suggesting the agency should be a for profit organization ?

No. But apiweb complaints are not new and there wasn’t spare money to replace it. People complained that more honey testing should be done. There wasn’t the money to do it .