AFB vaccine

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19
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Lower North Island
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You are not wrong that the journey is a long way if you start out the wrong direction. So far I agree, but fortunately I believe in the conspiracy that the earth is round, so we would get there eventually.. But I don't think it is a development that is wrong. It is a development which can't be said for a static thing like burning, as effective as it may be in theory. I am aware of the situation in the US.

"...correct me someone if I'm wrong on this." I honestly don't get what you mean, sorry.
Prophylactic antibiotics= antibiotics to prevent infection or as a matter of course because it's assumed hives will be infected once moved (so given prior to moving hives from over-wintering location).

Shook swarming= the equivalent of Harry Potter's arch nemesis so will not be named or described... Unfortunately someone may think it's a good idea

I hope that explains what I mean better and FYI the planet you call "Earth" is not round (The sphere you imagine) it's actually oval. I have it on good authority Now I must away very soon as my Tricorder is sounding a warning ⚠️ something about Will Robinson

I am a strong proponent of burning so buy the best wood frames nowadays. S'mores nyom nyom

Are you aware of the situation in the U.S.? Really? What is it?

As you took me to mean I am against it and a conspiracy theorist then I will take that side. Was neutral on the subject but will look into the science of it. It's going to be a hell of a job finding needles small enough for the bees (but pretty darn sure it doesn't work that way)

Unfortunately that's the way it works on this site and I'm going to assume now you didn't mean anything by it but since this interests me let's learn together 🙂

It'll probably take another few days for me to reply as it's a busy time for me and the back is tweaking a bit
 

Alastair

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Are you aware of the situation in the U.S.? Really? What is it?

There's a lot of situations in the US.

Please let's know which one you are referring to, and we will then be able to answer your question and tell you if we are aware of it.
 
26
18
Dunedin
Experience
Hobbyist
As you took me to mean I am against it and a conspiracy theorist then I will take that side. Was neutral on the subject but will look into the science of it. It's going to be a hell of a job finding needles small enough for the bees (but pretty darn sure it doesn't work that way)

Unfortunately that's the way it works on this site and I'm going to assume now you didn't mean anything by it but since this interests me let's learn together 🙂
Thank you for assuming I didn't mean anything by it. I didn't. I am a positive, curious and hopeful person who thinks it is a good development when alternatives are explored. As limited as they may be, and maybe sometimes even in the wrong direction, they offer chances for criticism, new insight and further development .. possibly leading to something that ultimately provides a better and more constructive approach to this disease than what we have currently. Yes, let us learn together, that is a good purpose in life.

Have a good beekeeping year everyone!
 
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26
18
Dunedin
Experience
Hobbyist
I was not aware of this, but come to think of it: Insects can have transgenerational immunity. When a parent insect develops (insect type of ) immunity against a pathogen, then the offspring can 'inherit' that immunity, often in several generations. It is still not know how this works in detail, but it does not seem to happen via regular DNA, nor via antibodies.
In bees the queen is the only one that produces offspring, feeding her killed pathogens via bee candy seems a logical step.

Bees are so special, you have to love them :)
 
422
306
Mid Canterbury
Experience
Semi Commercial
In bees the queen is the only one that produces offspring, feeding her killed pathogens via bee candy seems a logical step.
I am not a scientist, just a beekeeper that has produced some queen cells and used some caged queens. Sometimes the queen doesn't always eat all the caged candy. But then again I could have this all wrong, that it's going to be administered through queen candy. Or are they going to somehow feed the candy to the queen before caging?

As you note the queen is producing the offspring, therefore why do researchers appear to have gone for vaccine in queen candy? Generally, anyone that produces quality cells knows a little bit about sucrose and JH levels, Day 3 and caste differentiation.

I'm also curious as to the effects on immune systems with vaccine controls.
 
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26
18
Dunedin
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Hobbyist
I am not a scientist, just a beekeeper that has produced some queen cells and used some caged queens. Sometimes the queen doesn't always eat all the caged candy. But then again I could have this all wrong, that it's going to be administered through queen candy. Or are they going to somehow feed the candy to the queen before caging?

As you note the queen is producing the offspring, therefore why do researchers appear to have gone for vaccine in queen candy? Generally, anyone that produces quality cells knows a little bit about sucrose and JH levels, Day 3 and caste differentiation.

I'm also curious as to the effects on immune systems with vaccine controls.
I know almost nothing about queen breeding, sorry. Perhaps the queen would be quarantined for a few days in a cage with a vaccine candy to chew away.
 
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422
306
Mid Canterbury
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Semi Commercial
Here’s a vaccine with many doses in each pack
True Blu'.

The USDA option just sounds like another onerous task to undertake, costing $. Not that burning hives is not $!!!! From what I can see, essentially it is relying on the US findings, their options working, and the honesty of queen cell or queen bee producers, and nature doing specifically what you want it to do, human error, and from what I can see (I may be incredibly naive and uneducated) I am not sure the queen candy is the best option for a vaccine.

It would be interesting to hear the comments of whoever in NZ advises MPI on these issues.
 
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Jhah

BOP Club
10
6
kawerau
Experience
Hobbyist
Love this. Do you think they will camp out in parliament grounds and take over the beehive!!!!????? I don't think this time they will have to worry about Celine Dion being played incessantly. Although the sprinklers being turned on might be a bit of problem.
Wasps are more likely to do this
 
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Hawkes Bay
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From what I have read this vaccine absolutely useless for treating clinical infections but it might have a place for stopping infections in the first place. Sometimes AFB occurs because hives have had a massive dose of spores either from a major robbing event or swapping of heavily infested gear but a lot of ongoing AFB problems come from lightly infected gear and often manifest as a single infected cell to start with although this quickly developed into a full-blown infection. For many hives if that first cell didn't occur then they would probably not go on to develop AFB. In areas where AFB is common then a huge percentage of hives will have some spores and most of those hives will not go on to develop AFB if their spor loading is low in the first place. I don't know enough about this Vaccine to know whether it would have this effect but it will be interesting to find out.
 
19
7
Lower North Island
Experience
Commercial
I understand that the vaccine is going to be administered in queen candy. Why is that the option?
And a good question it is. I suspect because of the way they have to practice beekeeping (& therefore feed their families and pay employees) that is actually a feeding option called fondant.
I've included a Pinterest link below to a video to prevent 'rabbitholing' and from 4:30 on it can be seen used in practice
They have a lot of problems with diseases and treatments are expensive so people explore other options to keep their heads above water financially
 
317
417
Bay of Plenty
Experience
Commercial
My issue with vaccines is what happens when you stop using them. When EFB was thought to be here, and some big beekeepers wanted the ability to use Terramycin for treatment, the Aussies said don't go down that track, as once you're on it, you can't come off it, as if you do the outbreak may be more of a problem.
In NZ, we have always burnt, which, as you know, entirely deals with that infection.
 
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Alastair

Founder Member
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My own thoughts on it are if you used the vaccine, you would still continue to check, and burn if need be, same as usual. Just, the incidence of AFB should be lower.

However I doubt this vaccine will become widely used in NZ. Firstly, there will be incidences of people saying <I used a vaccinated queen and my hive got AFB> which will put other people off, and secondly best I can tell the majority of NZ hives have self raised queens, which will not be vaccinated.

However, anything that can reduce AFB is a good thing in my view.
 
234
244
Katikati
Experience
Commercial
My own thoughts on it are if you used the vaccine, you would still continue to check, and burn if need be, same as usual. Just, the incidence of AFB should be lower.

However I doubt this vaccine will become widely used in NZ. Firstly, there will be incidences of people saying <I used a vaccinated queen and my hive got AFB> which will put other people off, and secondly best I can tell the majority of NZ hives have self raised queens, which will not be vaccinated.

However, anything that can reduce AFB is a good thing in my view.

In what way will it be different from using terramycin. My understanding is that we can't use terramycin because it can mask the presence of AFB and when we stop using it hives can come down with AFB. How will this vaccine be different? The difference would be that we don't get residues in honey.
 


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