Another bizarre beekeeping rule ?

[frazzledfozzle]

Okay, I looked. I didn't want to, but I did. Here's what I thought. I didn't like it.

well thank goodness !
After reading your first post regarding it and seeming to be all in favour I was thinking who is this @Dave Black imposter !

I very nearly gave you the laughing emoticon but didn’t want to be rude on your first post in the new forum !

 

[frazzledfozzle]

Very fair comment.

All the same, when I read that document, full of PC BS that it is, I none the less feel that I already do most of what is in it.

As such I do not fear it and I could live with it.

However I do suspect it will be modified probably much, it is just a draft discussion document at this time.

@Alastair nothing stays a “draft document” for long.
Do we really need yet another layer of bureaucracy interfering with our everyday beekeeping work ?

Look at the ridiculous hoops RMP holders have to go through to pass their RMPs right down to recording the number of mice in which traps and More pedantic ridiculous nonsense.

Theres already far to much interference in our lives without welcoming more.

 

[John B]

I listened to the webinar but couldn't ask any questions due to my lack of technical expertise. Interesting discussion anyway.
One thing I did note down was the mention of this being a. Best practice guideline. A lot of my objections would disappear if it was called this rather than a code of conduct.

 

[Dennis Crowley]

I'm back, I'm allowed out of grants MIQ,.
I'm am really surprised by how many of you beekeepers say you cant run your beekeeping outfits within these draft proposal.
It is only a draft, someone said that beekeepers cant do 60% of what is in here, remember it is only a draft.
I must be bloody thick or something(I'm not so sure that's wrong) so tell me what 60% of what is in this draft you say you can't work within.
Not we shouldn't have it, but make this about the draft proposal, not interested in other industries who by the way all have them in place,
I've poured a coffee, finished this round of the bee work, lets break this down
Remember none of this is telling you how to beekeep, its about how you think about the welfare of your bees within the confounds of your style of beekeeping.

 

[StephenB]

Its really about where it will go and the consequences of where it goes and the financial costs of it all .

Eg the study the government released on round up. Nothing has changed other than beekeepers having to pay mores for testing.

 

[yesbut]

By the sounds of it the next time I get grotted off about a nasty hive and douse the thing in petrol I better not tell anyone

 

[StephenB]

By the sounds of it the next time I get grotted off about a nasty hive and douse the thing in petrol I better not tell anyone

Thats why we should all be pushing back over this idea

Yesbutt you might find this article interesting

Plants 'talk to' each other through their roots

Scientists studying corn seedlings believe that they send signals under the soil, advising each other of the proximity of other plants

www.theguardian.com

 

[bighands]

By the sounds of it the next time I get grotted off about a nasty hive and douse the thing in petrol I better not tell anyone

You can tell me I will take it off your hands

 

[Dennis Crowley]

Its really about where it will go and the consequences of where it goes and the financial costs of it all .

Eg the study the government released on round up. Nothing has changed other than beekeepers having to pay mores for testing.

Not helpful to the question, I get it you don't like it, but that's not what I've asked here,

By the sounds of it the next time I get grotted off about a nasty hive and douse the thing in petrol I better not tell anyone

If its AFB all legal and good in every way. Next answer, if you just want to kill the hive for no other reason than you don't want the hive, give it to someone who does.

 

[John B]

I think it's fair that we talk about of this code. The consequences of not having it have certainly been talked about. I am not strongly for or against the idea but I am concerned about the longer term consequences and to not look at these would be remiss.
It can already take up to 12 months to get MPI permission to do varoa control research approval which I find almost unbelievable. They are supposed to be trying to help us deal with varoa. Some of the rules that MPI apply to varoa research are simply unbelievable but unfortunately true. I can't for the life of me decide whether they are for ethical reasons or just bureaucratic stupidity.
Slightly of subject I know but I can just imagine what MPI could do with this code.
Don't believe me. Varoa researchers are not allowed to breed varoa for their research.
Every time I swap brood from one hive to another I am also undoubtedly swapping varoa but researchers are not allowed to deliberately do this.
Who is in charge of making these daft interpretations of legislation.
As for the code being a draft that's fair enough but it should be a draft not daft. Stressing hives when you shift them is not something you should do but it does not make them swarm, it never has and it never will. Did anyone with any beekeeping experience read this draft before it was published.
I apologise for being a bit blunt.

 

[Maggie]

I think it's fair that we talk about of this code.

I apologise for being a bit blunt.

If it is correct, that this is being driven by the Minister, then it is v important that we talk about this. Part of the discussion is about people with practical beekeeping experience and all business aspects of the industry having their say. If this is a ministerial request, the industry have to work out how they will deal with it, without making things difficult, that are often very sensible, at the beekeeping coalface

 

[tommy dave]

@Dennis Crowley - do you know if feedback is being sought on this draft, and if so, when it would be best to get it in by?
The intent sounds sensible, keeping bees out of the animal welfare act should be the goal, if the way to do that is via code or best practice guidelines or whatever might be then i'm happy to provide thoughts on it.

"There is also the push from the Minister to have bees come under the animal welfare act, this is also showing the minister that we beekeepers can do these things ourselves without being burden by far more legislative act."
"

 

[Dennis Crowley]

@Dennis Crowley - do you know if feedback is being sought on this draft, and if so, when it would be best to get it in by?
The intent sounds sensible, keeping bees out of the animal welfare act should be the goal, if the way to do that is via code or best practice guidelines or whatever might be then i'm happy to provide thoughts on it.

"There is also the push from the Minister to have bees come under the animal welfare act, this is also showing the minister that we beekeepers can do these things ourselves without being burden by far more legislative act."
"

info@apinz.org.nz

 

[Dennis Crowley]

Did anyone with any beekeeping experience read this draft before it was published.
I apologise for being a bit blunt.

Yes several commercial beekeepers of varying size operations from both NI and SI.
The issues is trying to make a draft that is short and covers enough, but not a bible that covers every little thing that may happen to a hive.

 

[Grant]

info@apinz.org.nz

That email address has an account on this site. I would have thought they would use that account for communications such as this.

 

[NickWallingford]

That email address has an account on this site. I would have thought they would use that account for communications such as this.

At the other end of that email account is a human person. Her name is Charlotte. It seems likely she maintains currency with this site and receives feedback on the draft using that same email account. And who knows? She may use that same email to write to her mother...

 

[Dave Black]

In the spirit of 'put up or shut up' (and at great personal risk ) I have had a go at drafting something I might like to see as a Bee Welfare Code of Practice. Here goes...

Beekeepers have a responsibility to provide, at minimum, specific, community-acceptable, animal housing and husbandry standards for their honeybees. This code defines ethical standards for the management of honeybee colonies.

1. Beekeepers will ensure their attention and competency enables the highest standard of husbandry, and will continuously improve their knowledge, observation, and expertise in order to anticipate, recognise, reduce, or remove instances of stress, malnutrition, death or disease.
2. Honeybees will be housed in hives that allow beekeepers to monitor and care for their bees and that allow them to respond to change in their environment, exhibiting their full range of normal, observable, natural behaviour, including but not limited to, nest construction, feeding, growth, movement, communication, learning, and reproduction.
3. Honeybee hives will be designed, constructed and used so that they facilitate the seasonal biological requirements for colony growth and reproduction, defence from predation and disease, and protection from unfavourable exposure to the elements.
4. A beekeeper will choose sites for their hive(s) that provide the bees with access to collect food, water, and materials they need, and will act to supplement, manage and conserve the ecosystems that sustain sites providing resources for their honeybees.
5. As far as possible, the aim of all interventions a beekeeper may make will contribute to and not reduce the long-term well-being of a colony or the apiary of which it is a part.
6. Sustainably harvesting resources from a hive must be achieved without undermining the integrity and stability of the colony, recognising its contribution in a complex ecosystem and own intrinsic value.

 

[yesbut]

We might have to devise a scale of intrinsic values otherwise we'll find ourselves unable to squash sandflies.

 

[Gordie]

We may need a rule to adhere to re getting out of bed in the morning, or life will become way too free.

 

[Grant]

In the spirit of 'put up or shut up' (and at great personal risk

Well done Dave I think you're the only one to provide an alternative solution.

How would point 1 be measured?
Does point 2 or 3 need to mention removable frames?