Bridging wax and plastic frames

[Rob McInnes]

Hi team.
So I have a huge issue with bridging wax between frame side bars and box.
I run 10 frame supers, as this is what the extractor wanted.

At first I thought it was just that the bees had run out of room. This is not the case, i assume they just don't like the boxes?? Dunno

The boxes are not dipped, just painted, hives are south waikato and are just pumping.

Its causing the extractor a headache as the box breaker cannot lift the frames out. I now need to do this on site pre harvest during my afb checks.


Thoughts pls

 

[Maggie]

In this neck of the woods extraction rates are for eight frames per box. And that is what I like. If you do nine frames then you have to notify the extraction plant and they have to calibrate machinery & charge accordingly. Ten frames is generally for cut comb, or if you are getting new foundation drawn.

 

[tristan]

the reason they are gummed up like that is its NORMAL.
good flow and decent length of time on the hive will do that. the only way to stop it is to take the honey off early which risks high moisture content.
get a decent extractor who knows what hes doing !
its not hard for them to cut that, you have to cut bridging etc anyway. they are just being (something rude) lazy.

yes bridging and excessively fat frames are a pain to extract as well as risk breaking them more (i really dislike 8 framers). but beekeeping comes first. i don;t get any say on how other beeks run their hives.
tho i recommend stick to 10 frames for normal frame sizes. if you run 8's make sure they are manly as they are made a bit stronger to handle the weight. a lot of people who run 9's (have done it myself) often don't space them properly.
the biggest problem is poorly drawn out frames and excessive bridging between them especially when they are spaced out more.. its a pain to extract but even worse for the beek.

 

[tristan]

In this neck of the woods extraction rates are for eight frames per box. And that is what I like. If you do nine frames then you have to notify the extraction plant and they have to calibrate machinery & charge accordingly. Ten frames is generally for cut comb, or if you are getting new foundation drawn.

here its per box. whats in the box is beeks problem. 10 frames, 8 frames, full or completely empty, the bill is the same.

 

[Maggie]

10 frames, 8 frames, full or completely empty, the bill is the same.

That's interesting. Here if it's more than 8 frames they are set to one side, then counted up at the end, and you are charged accordingly.

Extraction contract staff are paid per box or 8 frames, and they ain't too happy if they have 9 or 10 frames per box.

 

[tristan]

That's interesting. Here if it's more than 8 frames they are set to one side, then counted up at the end, and you are charged accordingly.

Extraction contract staff are paid per box or 8 frames, and they ain't too happy if they have 9 or 10 frames per box.

i find that funny as hell.
especially as 8 framers are not that common. most commercial beeks run FD's. get a few who do 3/4 8's.
plus it costs the extractor the same to process the same amount of honey regardless of what box it comes out of. ie 10 ton out of 8's cost the same as 10 ton out of 10's.

tho paying by the box sounds interesting. might improve some guys work effort. but one common problem is people tend to break the gear trying in vain to go faster. they often end up going slow because of all the stoppages caused by trying to push it faster.

 

[southbee]

the reason they are gummed up like that is its NORMAL.
good flow and decent length of time on the hive will do that. the only way to stop it is to take the honey off early which risks high moisture content.
get a decent extractor who knows what hes doing !
its not hard for them to cut that, you have to cut bridging etc anyway. they are just being (something rude) lazy.

yes bridging and excessively fat frames are a pain to extract as well as risk breaking them more (i really dislike 8 framers). but beekeeping comes first. i don;t get any say on how other beeks run their hives.
tho i recommend stick to 10 frames for normal frame sizes. if you run 8's make sure they are manly as they are made a bit stronger to handle the weight. a lot of people who run 9's (have done it myself) often don't space them properly.
the biggest problem is poorly drawn out frames and excessive bridging between them especially when they are spaced out more.. its a pain to extract but even worse for the beek.

Agree, a good flow will make them put honey anywhere they can and the gaps between the frames seem to be a favourite spot. We run 9 frames in a super, with 8 they just draw it too wide, too much brace comb and bigger risk of bad spacing. 10 in a super just for foundation to get drawn, they're normally a lot flatter and harder to uncap. I'm surprised any commercial extraction outfit would want 10 frames in a box.

 

[CHCHPaul]

Getting new foundation drawn on a flow is my conundrum. I’ve tried less than ten and it is usually a mess. So, ten it is... but if I don’t make it back in time they are all capped and not bulging for an easy uncapping (I know, it’s my cross to bare!).

Oh, this has sparked a question... could I scrape the cappings off, spread them to nine frames per box, and expect them to build them bigger?

 

[stoney]

No, once they have processed the nectar and dried it to where it needs to be they cap it off.. ive been late on 9 framing foundation boxes before on whole sites and found they still capped it off narrow, that said I have seen frames where the cells have been capped then extended out further and capped again.

 

[southbee]

hat said I have seen frames where the cells have been capped then extended out further and capped again.

Yes, seen that too, seems to happen if there's another flow kicking in once the last stuff is capped. Makes it harder to uncap, at least for us as we're using an electric plane.

 

[southbee]

Getting new foundation drawn on a flow is my conundrum. I’ve tried less than ten and it is usually a mess. So, ten it is... but if I don’t make it back in time they are all capped and not bulging for an easy uncapping (I know, it’s my cross to bare!).

Oh, this has sparked a question... could I scrape the cappings off, spread them to nine frames per box, and expect them to build them bigger?

If you're uncapping yourself just scrape them and extract, next season they'll draw them out further.

 

[tristan]

Getting new foundation drawn on a flow is my conundrum. I’ve tried less than ten and it is usually a mess. So, ten it is... but if I don’t make it back in time they are all capped and not bulging for an easy uncapping (I know, it’s my cross to bare!).

Oh, this has sparked a question... could I scrape the cappings off, spread them to nine frames per box, and expect them to build them bigger?

that would be a huge effort to go turn them into 9 framers mid way through and frankly a waste of time.

getting them drawn out well is way more important. having poorly drawn out frames costs you a lot.
foundation boxes should be the last boxes you put out.

 

[mydoghasfleas]

i put on a few f/d boxes to be drawn out, with the funny season we seen to be having down here they have hardly touched them, nectar has really only started coming in in the last 3 weeks

 

[tristan]

i put on a few f/d boxes to be drawn out, with the funny season we seen to be having down here they have hardly touched them, nectar has really only started coming in in the last 3 weeks

thats pretty common with marginal flows.
big flows can have the other problem of they can't draw them out fast enough.

 

[Wknz]

i put on a few f/d boxes to be drawn out, with the funny season we seen to be having down here they have hardly touched them, nectar has really only started coming in in the last 3 weeks

I'm glad someone else thinks this season is funny. I had a three box hive which was getting too full. I put on a fourth 5 weeks ago. Not much drawn out and I have less honey than 5 weeks ago. It was looking like a big haul this year and now not so much. I ended up feeding one hive recently. 8 frames brood. Less than 1 frame nectar. Almost no capped honey.

 

[Rob McInnes]

That's interesting. Here if it's more than 8 frames they are set to one side, then counted up at the end, and you are charged accordingly.

Extraction contract staff are paid per box or 8 frames, and they ain't too happy if they have 9 or 10 frames per box.

In Canterbury its normal for 8 frames, however these hives are in the north island and the extractor wants 10 frames, maybe this is a north 'v' south thing, or knives 'v' pickers, bottom lines is I've tried both and 9 framers all gum up to various degrees,

never seems to happen when I use wooden frames tho

thats pretty common with marginal flows.
big flows can have the other problem of they can't draw them out fast enough.

I don't have a marginal flow. Waikato gave me 5 boxes per hive this year.

i find that funny as hell.
especially as 8 framers are not that common. most commercial beeks run FD's. get a few who do 3/4 8's.
plus it costs the extractor the same to process the same amount of honey regardless of what box it comes out of. ie 10 ton out of 8's cost the same as 10 ton out of 10's.

tho paying by the box sounds interesting. might improve some guys work effort. but one common problem is people tend to break the gear trying in vain to go faster. they often end up going slow because of all the stoppages caused by trying to push it faster.

@tristan thats funny as hell bud.

8 framers seems to be very common in the south island

 

[tristan]

@tristan thats funny as hell bud.

8 framers seems to be very common in the south island

its always interesting how different beeks can be.
thats really noticeable when doing contract extraction. everyone is different. so i'm really surprised a plant would have a set way you have to run your hives.

 

[Rob McInnes]

its always interesting how different beeks can be.
thats really noticeable when doing contract extraction. everyone is different. so i'm really surprised a plant would have a set way you have to run your hives.

I don't think its the plant is making you set the number of frames,
Example:- when at uni in my late teens I was working in a pack house, they ran 2000 hives and all 10 framers, this was in northland. While I had extended family in southland also running 10 frames, while mid Canty they were running 8 - 9 frames, maybe your not correct in your assumptions its the pack house and its historic. After all this is an industry that hasn't changed a whole lot in the last 20 years. My original question is about wax and side bar build up. Would contributions to the question was great, arguing about the number of frames in a box is something for another thread please

 

[tristan]

I don't think its the plant is making you set the number of frames,

didn't you say the extractor was the one who wanted 10 frames a box?

the wax build up is normal. probably a bit worse with plastic frames. but still get it on wooden frames.

an extractor who expects you to run a certain number of frames and can't have wax build up sounds like a complete rookie outfit.
its takes all of 5 seconds to cut any wax build up after you do the inspection before you put it into the deboxer.

 

[Grant]

didn't you say the extractor was the one who wanted 10 frames a box?

yes, twice

So I have a huge issue with bridging wax between frame side bars and box.
I run 10 frame supers, as this is what the extractor wanted.

and

In Canterbury its normal for 8 frames, however these hives are in the north island and the extractor wants 10 frames, maybe this is a north 'v' south thing, or knives 'v' pickers, bottom lines is I've tried both and 9 framers all gum up to various degrees,

so I'm not entirely sure where the backtracking has come from,

I don't think its the plant is making you set the number of frames,
Example:- when at uni in my late teens I was working in a pack house, they ran 2000 hives and all 10 framers, this was in northland. While I had extended family in southland also running 10 frames, while mid Canty they were running 8 - 9 frames, maybe your not correct in your assumptions its the pack house and its historic.

The only thing I can think of is that Rob sees it as a north/south divide, rather than an extractor plant divide, but this hasn't come across clearly in other posts.

However, by everyone's admission, there is clearly a difference somewhere. Whether it's by the plant or by the regions it happens, and it maybe funny, odd or whatever else, but I don't see the need for the defensive attitudes. It's a thing, get over it.

Now the let's revisit the bottom line.

bottom lines is I've tried both and 9 framers all gum up to various degrees,

never seems to happen when I use wooden frames tho

So I think there lies the answer really. Plastic frames.