NZBF: Queenless hive

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6
1
Te Puke
Experience
Beginner
Hi, I'm a beginner student at Toi ohomai but have had to remove my hive due to COVID stuff. I did this mid Jan, after a couple of checks couldn't find the marked queen and hive numbers were declining.
On 27 Jan I saw a new queen at bottom of frame near entrance so closed it all up.
Yesterday I had a look, could not find a queen, no brood and not so many bees.
Would re-queening now save my hive?
 

tommy dave

Gold
BOP Club
225
258
mostly wellington, sometimes dunedin
Experience
Hobbyist
Hi, I'm a beginner student at Toi ohomai but have had to remove my hive due to COVID stuff. I did this mid Jan, after a couple of checks couldn't find the marked queen and hive numbers were declining.
On 27 Jan I saw a new queen at bottom of frame near entrance so closed it all up.
Yesterday I had a look, could not find a queen, no brood and not so many bees.
Would re-queening now save my hive?
is there anyone nearby you could acquire a frame of brood in all stages from? if so, get one, and add it to the hive and see whether they're raising an emergency queen. There is a chance there is a new queen in there that simply hasn't started laying yet. It's really hard to answer this one without looking inside the hive - bee numbers is key. Are there say, enough bees in there that at least ten frames are completely covered in bees several bees deep? so, still fairly weak, but salvagable. Or are you talking more like a handful of frames of bees?
 
6
1
Te Puke
Experience
Beginner
is there anyone nearby you could acquire a frame of brood in all stages from? if so, get one, and add it to the hive and see whether they're raising an emergency queen. There is a chance there is a new queen in there that simply hasn't started laying yet. It's really hard to answer this one without looking inside the hive - bee numbers is key. Are there say, enough bees in there that at least ten frames are completely covered in bees several bees deep? so, still fairly weak, but salvagable. Or are you talking more like a handful of frames of bees?
Just a few frames of bees I would say, I have another hive that is ok and I could get a frame of brood from and maybe re-queen at same time, I just don't know if they will all survive
 
8,649
5,113
maungaturoto
Experience
Commercial
Just a few frames of bees I would say, I have another hive that is ok and I could get a frame of brood from and maybe re-queen at same time, I just don't know if they will all survive
the hive is dead.

its probably best to join it with the other hive. make sure its ABOVE the excluder (as you may still have a queen or unmated queen) and use papering technique to join the two. keep the other excluder on as well.
the advantage here is the bees look after the queen, if there is a queen, you can run double queen over winter. if there is unmated queen you will need to deal with that. come spring you can let it build up and its an easy split.


On 27 Jan I saw a new queen at bottom of frame near entrance so closed it all up.
if you mean closed the hive up, that certainly would have killed the hive.
not sure why you would want to ever do that.

unfortunately it sounds like they have not taught you lesson number one, understanding hive size. what size is good, whats poor and whats dead.
very common issue for beginners and hobbyists.
 
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Josh

Gold
977
715
Christchurch
Experience
Hobbyist
Sounds like you actually understand what your looking at more than you realise/admit.

I killed my first hives, super easy to do when you’re learning. Can’t learn without making mistakes.

I agree with @tristan , Better to have merge now, go through winter with a good strong hive. Thank moving brood across now and risking both, although one frame would be ok. But you loose 2-3 weeks waiting for a result.

I did that last year, and had great fun doing my first vertical split this year
 
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6
1
Te Puke
Experience
Beginner
the hive is dead.

its probably best to join it with the other hive. make sure its ABOVE the excluder (as you may still have a queen or unmated queen) and use papering technique to join the two. keep the other excluder on as well.
the advantage here is the bees look after the queen, if there is a queen, you can run double queen over winter. if there is unmated queen you will need to deal with that. come spring you can let it build up and its an easy split.



if you mean closed the hive up, that certainly would have killed the hive.
not sure why you would want to ever do that.

unfortunately it sounds like they have not taught you lesson number one, understanding hive size. what size is good, whats poor and whats dead.
very common issue for beginners and hobbyists.
Imeant I just put the hive back together 😁 I certainly didn't want to take my hive while I m so inexperienced but I had no choice and tech is giving us not much support unfortunately, thanks heaps, I'll keep you posted
 
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Reactions: tommy dave
6
1
Te Puke
Experience
Beginner
the hive is dead.

its probably best to join it with the other hive. make sure its ABOVE the excluder (as you may still have a queen or unmated queen) and use papering technique to join the two. keep the other excluder on as well.
the advantage here is the bees look after the queen, if there is a queen, you can run double queen over winter. if there is unmated queen you will need to deal with that. come spring you can let it build up and its an easy split.



if you mean closed the hive up, that certainly would have killed the hive.
not sure why you would want to ever do that.

unfortunately it sounds like they have not taught you lesson number one, understanding hive size. what size is good, whats poor and whats dead.
very common issue for beginners and hobbyists.
Would I put the small hive brood box on top of the good hive brood box or underneath?
 
8,649
5,113
maungaturoto
Experience
Commercial
I meant I just put the hive back together 😁
(y)

Would I put the small hive brood box on top of the good hive brood box or underneath?
put the bad one on top. you want the strong hive to guard the entrance. if you put weak on bottom you leave the entrance unguarded and open to invaders.

I killed my first hives, super easy to do when you’re learning. Can’t learn without making mistakes.

you can learn without making mistakes. there is no point reinventing the wheel. everyone else before you has made the mistakes so you don't have to.
however things go a lot easier if you get a good start. more often than not people start off on the wrong foot, often trying to do the most difficult things possible. a lot of that comes down to poor teaching.

you can keep bees well, very easily, if you get the basics right.
 
6
1
Te Puke
Experience
Beginner
(y)


put the bad one on top. you want the strong hive to guard the entrance. if you put weak on bottom you leave the entrance unguarded and open to invaders.



you can learn without making mistakes. there is no point reinventing the wheel. everyone else before you has made the mistakes so you don't have to.
however things go a lot easier if you get a good start. more often than not people start off on the wrong foot, often trying to do the most difficult things possible. a lot of that comes down to poor teaching.

you can keep bees well, very easily, if you get the basics right.
Of course, common sense but I didnt click, thanks heaps
 


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