Springbank Honey forced to burn thousands of beehives

Springbank Honey forced to burn thousands of beehives after American foulbrood disease found

saw this over on social media. of course the rest of the story is not being shared, or at least i havn't seen it.
as afb management doesn't just test supers for the hell of it, no doubt they have found a lot of infected hives or high spore count in honey.
more than likely this is a case of beekeepers shortcutting beekeeping and let afb spread throughout their hives over a number of years (from experience it takes many years to get to this stage).
now its biting them in the rear but they blame everyone else instead.

sadly this is not new and is being repeated all over nz (i know of a couple myself), which in turn spreads to you.
double edge sword here is that its easy for afb to hide behind varroa problems, which we have a lot of. so you need to keep on top of both.

 

[Alastair]

Agree with both those last 2 posts. Usually in a commercial outfit that has been going for a while, the attitude to AFB can be entrenched in the management and field staff, whether they are right, or wrong. As Tristan said.

However there have been cases over the last several years where a beekeeping outfit has had a big infection rate, but the outfits management have been cooperative and willing to work with the Agency to make a plan to eliminate AFB from their outfit. And this has been successful in a number of cases some of which have been reported in The Beekeeper magazine. Of course the Agency are not fools, and they have monitored progress by means of further inspections, but in some cases this successful outcome has been achieved with little more input from the agency than advice and monitoring.

In other cases the beekeeper has been unable to see their AFB infestation as a serious problem, have not been willing to change their systems, and have been obstructive, attempting to prevent inspections from happening, etc. In these cases it is the job of the Agency to enforce elimination of AFB, with or without the consent of the beekeeper. This is where things can go pear shaped, with the beekeeper feeling persecuted. However the mandate of the Agency is to eliminate AFB, and they are legally entitled to require AFB to be destroyed when it is found. If they did not, there would be no point having an Agency, or us paying a levy to enable them to do it.

 

[Br. Adamson]

Stephen claims that he was forced to burn 2000 brand-new boxes that had never been near a beehive and if that is the case then it would clearlyy be an abuse of power by those involved with ordering the destruction.
I can only imagine that they had been filled up with contaminated combs which would be enough to make them infected but if they truly were brand-new and uncontaminated except by being in the same shed then we will have something to worry about.
Reportedly, two out of six tests came back positive and with no way of knowing how these tests were done and how much gear was swabbed for each test , it does on the face of it look like a very strict interpretation of the law which could be a worry for all of us as there will be very few commercial beekeepers they did not have some gear with at least a very low number of spores.
A nonclinical hive even though it tests positive does not have to be destroyed, yet stored boxes and frames had to be burnt despite the majority being negative.
There has to be a lot more going on in the background.
As an aside, if the gear was heavily contaminated then it had no monetary value.

Last week a group of us were unequivocally told by the South Island AP1 that the agency will never issue a notice to destroy equipment that has not been on beehives. And that they would not swab equipment without a disease problem. So it seems there is one of two possibilities in this situation. 1) Either the agency, who is charged with helping beekeepers to implement their disease elimination conformity agreements, is blatantly lying and spreading misinformation or 2) Steven Brown of Springbank honey is.

 

[frazzledfozzle]

1) Either the agency, who is charged with helping beekeepers to implement their disease elimination conformity agreements, is blatantly lying and spreading misinformation or 2) Steven Brown of Springbank honey is.

well I know which scenario I believe and it’s not the first one so that leaves the 2nd.
His videos are riddled with half truths and lies and he’s blatantly misleading non beekeepers.

 

[tristan]

well I know which scenario I believe and it’s not the first one so that leaves the 2nd.
His videos are riddled with half truths and lies and he’s blatantly misleading non beekeepers.

and for some weird reason he thinks he is entitled to compensation for his problem which he caused. he expects good beekeepers to pay him for his bad beekeeping !!!

can you imagen how bad afb would get is they paid for infected hives. every old worn out hive would instantly get afb. every commercial downsizing would suddenly have massive amounts of afb.
its like ccd overseas where, for a while, they paid for any effected hives. tons of people had ccd and when they stopped paying there was none.

 

[tristan]

https://afb.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/May-2024-The-Management-Agency-Industry-Announcement.pdf

 

[Alastair]

A lot of the misinformation from Springbank Honey and friends was to criticize the accuracy of the swab tests done on the boxes, with the (false) claim being repeatedly made that <<all beehives have some AFB so these tests would find it in any used boxes>>.

So here is a cut and paste from Tristan"s link, which is from the AFB management agency, the part explaining how these tests are done -

QUOTE - "Swabbing stored beekeeping equipment is used only after an assessment has been made regarding a combination of the following:

1. Unacceptable levels of clinical AFB have been found within colonies or hives, greater than the national average.
2. Repeated non-complying behaviour by the affected beekeeper over a period of time proving a lack of commitment to the AFB NPMP.
3. Poor AFB management practices are observed in the field.
4. Behaviour or practices that suggest a beekeeper may be concealing an AFB issue within their operation.

Once we suspect the presence of AFB-contaminated gear in a storage shed, swab samples are arranged to be collected from random stacks of used boxes. • Up to ten different surfaces may be tested by the same swab. Sample numbers and the number of surfaces swabbed are recorded. Multiple swabs may be combined into 1 test, if lager scale testing is required. • A swab test determines the quantity of AFB spores in the sample. Based on the spore level testing done to date, the threshold of 18,000 spores is used. • The spore load from a positive sample is calculated by multiplying the number of items swabbed, with the assumption that all spores came from one box or base alone, which is generally observed when a clinical hive has been missed. o Example 1: If the spore count from swabbing 5 surfaces was 5,300 spores, the total spore load for the sample size is 5,300 x 5 = 26,500. o Example 2: If the spore count from swabbing 10 surfaces was 3,450 spores, the total spore load for the sample size is 3,450 x 10 = 34,500. • Composite swab test results with over 18,000 spores indicated from a potential single box or hive demonstrates that the equipment either came from an AFB-infected hive or was associated with one. • This level of AFB contamination is likely to transmit future AFB infections within the beekeeper’s hives and apiaries. Therefore, the contaminated equipment is directed to be destroyed to minimise the risk of future spread through their beekeeping operation and to neighbouring beekeeping businesses".

 

[tristan]

should add that spore counts are nothing new, its been in use for many many decades now. we know very well what the results from certain levels of spore counts are. mark goodwin has many papers and books on this.

 

[John B]

Interesting article on the subject in the apiarists advocate.
Basically, one side can't tell the whole story because of privacy issues and the other won't waive those privacy rights to enable the whole story to be told.
I am almost tempted to buy half a dozen different lines of packed honey and have them tested to see what the spore count in them is.
Stephen claims that a lot of the hives that were actually identify with AFB in fact only had sack brood and if true that would be a very serious matter.
I stand firmly behind the management agency and the job they are doing. I do not believe they would allow fundamental mistakes like that to happen but I will say this.
If anyone in New Zealand believes this is happening to them I am willing at my own expense to do an independent audit of supposedly misdiagnosed beehives provided I am free to publicly announce my results whatever they may turn out to be.
I have a lifetime's experience in finding and destroying AFB. I have been an AP 2 in the past and I like to think I am known in the industry for my honesty and my competence.
I have no interest in damming anybody, I am interested only in finding out the truth and then using that knowledge to help overcome the problem.

 

[Alastair]

Stephen claims that a lot of the hives that were actually identify with AFB in fact only had sack brood and if true that would be a very serious matter.

Problem here is that when he was told AFB had been found in his hives, he replied no, it's just sack brood. Without actually looking at the hives himself. So the Agency asked him to come with them so they could show him, but he refused. Why? Because he claimed to be the best beekeeper in NZ at what he does, and does not need to deal with people "not on his level", and "juniors".

This kind of grandiosity might be the problem. These "juniors", did not even need to tell him anything. They just wanted to SHOW him the AFB infections in his own hives. But no, he wouldn't look.

 

[tristan]

Stephen claims that a lot of the hives that were actually identify with AFB in fact only had sack brood and if true that would be a very serious matter.

if i remember correctly ap2's take samples of those hives and they get tested.
the other strange thing here is " he believed the majority of the cases to be sacbrood, which is not infrequent in their organic hives." which simply indicates an ongoing varroa problem. afb hides quite well behind varroa issues.

the other important factor here is due to their size, its not him inspecting the hives, its his staff. that may well be lack of staff or poorly trained staff. he can only go by what they say.
he can be the best beekeeper in the world and it won't make any difference because its not him doing the work.

this whole situation is the same old thing that we have seen before. moneys tight, therefore its not afb its sacbrood. they have shortcut the beekeeping and spread it through their gear and their poor attitudes means they will never get on top of it.

"“You put the boxes on to hives, you then cheek the hives for clinical disease, the bees put honey in them and, if you find clinical disease, you then burn the hive. We have followed that plan. So yes, those boxes would have gone on to living hives. Those hives, there is no spread. The only way they can spread AFB is if the hive dies with AFB. The boxes are not spreading it.”"
this really highlights the failure of understanding and why they will never ever get on top of it.

 

[Alastair]

“You put the boxes on to hives, you then cheek the hives for clinical disease, the bees put honey in them and, if you find clinical disease, you then burn the hive. We have followed that plan. So yes, those boxes would have gone on to living hives. Those hives, there is no spread. The only way they can spread AFB is if the hive dies with AFB. The boxes are not spreading it.”"
this really highlights the failure of understanding and why they will never ever get on top of it.

Exactly.

Plus he is not even doing what he says anyway. He says he will put the boxes on hives then see if they get AFB, and if so, burn them. But clearly he or his staff did not even do that. Because the level of spores found in his boxes was so high they could only have come from hives with clinical AFB. IE, the hives with AFB had NOT been found and burned, and instead honey had been harvested from them and the boxes stored.

Problem here is <<expert syndrome>>. Essentially when the person believes themselves such an expert they are always right, even when they are mistaken, they are right. Because in their mind there is nobody else "at their level".

 

[Alastair]

if i remember correctly ap2's take samples of those hives and they get tested.

Normally not. But if the beekeeper is not cooperative then samples may be taken just to prove it. But with a beekeeper in denial, there is always the option to meet them on site and actually show them, which when I was an AP2 I had to do very occasionally.

Of course if the beekeeper refuses to even meet and have a look, not much further can be done, the matter has to be taken out of his hands.

 

[tristan]

Exactly.

Plus he is not even doing what he says anyway. He says he will put the boxes on hives then see if they get AFB, and if so, burn them. But clearly he or his staff did not even do that. Because the level of spores found in his boxes was so high they could only have come from hives with clinical AFB. IE, the hives with AFB had NOT been found and burned, and instead honey had been harvested from them and the boxes stored.

Problem here is <<expert syndrome>>. Essentially when the person believes themselves such an expert they are always right, even when they are mistaken, they are right. Because in their mind there is nobody else "at their level".

exactly. they are not finding them and will continue to not find them, especially if they are explaining it away.

not sure if its "expert syndrome" or simply "anti-establishment". doing the bare minimum legal requirement and not having good practices, which is a far more common situation which leads to these types of failures. add in varroa problems and money issues, things go downhill pretty fast.

 

[John B]

The cynical side of me Is surprised that he has any hives left to get infected with AFB after the destruction wrought on them with Roundup (not).
Everything about this reeks of an own goal and I agree with Tristen and Alistair. However the offer of independent inspection is still there even for those who don't have time to check their own hives.

 

[tristan]

However the offer of independent inspection is still there even for those who don't have time to check their own hives.

an offer well worth taking up just to pick johns brains.

 

[Jessej]

The Nag bolted…. Perhaps what this case illustrates is that while the Deca program is idealistic…. The reality is that it takes experience and dedication to keeep on top of AFB…. and a DECA cert is no gaurantee that the holder has the persistent patience to track the rotten brood down.
I know from experience that the larger our operation got…. The bigger our problem got….which leads to the question…. Had the agency embraced change and a dog squad, the industry might have made some progress in control.

 

[tristan]

The Nag bolted…. Perhaps what this case illustrates is that while the Deca program is idealistic…. The reality is that it takes experience and dedication to keeep on top of AFB…. and a DECA cert is no gaurantee that the holder has the persistent patience to track the rotten brood down.
I know from experience that the larger our operation got…. The bigger our problem got….which leads to the question…. Had the agency embraced change and a dog squad, the industry might have made some progress in control.

still, the deca program is working better than the previous model of just using inspectors. using just inspectors failed because people ignored afb as "its the inspectors job".

however with all the afb problems happening, i think there good chance a more aggressive stance will continue on. that could make a lot more progress.
this is something we discussed here years ago, the carrot and the stick. up until recently they used the carrot and little stick. now they are starting to use a lot more stick to enforce the carrot.

i hope they roll out the testing across the board. hopefully rapid testing can id the problems before they become a problem to everyone else.

i suspect nz is going to have to do a "deaseathon" clean up and go deal with the huge amount of dead outs littered around the country.

 

[Bron]

still, the deca program is working better than the previous model of just using inspectors. using just inspectors failed because people ignored afb as "its the inspectors job".

however with all the afb problems happening, i think there good chance a more aggressive stance will continue on. that could make a lot more progress.
this is something we discussed here years ago, the carrot and the stick. up until recently they used the carrot and little stick. now they are starting to use a lot more stick to enforce the carrot.

i hope they roll out the testing across the board. hopefully rapid testing can id the problems before they become a problem to everyone else.

i suspect nz is going to have to do a "deaseathon" clean up and go deal with the huge amount of dead outs littered around the country.

Sorry boys, I’ve finally had my first dose of Covid, clear last Wednesday, (himself also) I actually feel worse now than the 10 days I was positive.

I read the Apiarists Advocates story, it was great to see some balance, and horrified to read some of the comments, that you’ve already covered, particularly those that are so contradictory within the article. I feel grateful I’m a long way away from Canterbury, and saddened for the neighbours who aren’t.

The DECA is what we’ve got, we have the ability to alter aspects as our businesses adapt and change, I’ve done this once, but note that our original DECA is the only one I can access through hive hub. This is probably something that could be better. I might mention it.

I’d love to see beeks all over (the ones that are left) coming together for a diseasathon, they stopped here, a number of years ago. Is it still an option? I’d heard it was a “Health & Safety” issue.

 

[Alastair]

Welcome back Bron, you are now in the "I had covid" club

our original DECA is the only one I can access through hive hub.

Maybe that is an issue that has passed unnoticed, they may appreciate you letting them know.

 

[tristan]

this topic came up at one of the beekeeper meetings a little while ago.
i think there was some valid concerns voiced.
the big one is the potential for someone to turn up, swab test, and declare all supers need to be burnt. this is without any other finding or other cause to be there. if there is a history of afb problems, going through hives first then following up on the supers is i think fair enough. but just to turn up without cause, is a little heavy handed and a waste of resources. why test someone who doesn't have a problem. while i doubt that would happen in practice, its a possibility.
this also leads into the potential for misuse (ie due to personal conflicts). while that risk has always been there, its never been able to have a big effect. at worse you might burn a few hives that don't have afb, now they can burn all your supers.
i think there is a good argument to make sure there is good procedures in place and a chain of evidence before that happens.

however what was pretty obvious was the sheer lack of understanding of afb and poor mentality around it.
for eg
all hives/supers have afb spores in them.
pcr testing will always show the few spores thats always in the gear therefore its just dumb luck if they don't find it.
afb is a light switch, you either have it or you don't.
doing the bare minimum afb control means your a good beekeeper.
hives will clean up afb on there own (therefore you can clean it out fairly easily).
people with high rates of infection should be given a chance to clean it up (even tho the don't have the skills/ability to do so).
beeks should be compensated for their loss by the public even tho most of that will be beeks scamming the public.

clearly a few of these things appose each other which really shows how stupid it is.
not all hives have afb spores in them, most do not.
there is levels of infection. as spore count goes up so does the risk of the hive getting clinical infection. its not a light switch. this is in the yellow afb book. this is the opposite of the claim that all hives have afb spores. if its a light switch then every hive would have clinical afb, which of course is not true.
some hives do clean up afb, tho its not many. many will still exist with subclinical levels and they can go clinical levels some years down the track (something i have found first hand).
of course doing only what is legally required does not make you a good beekeeper, in fact i would call that bad beekeeping. the amount of work, effort and cost that goes into good afb control practices is a lot. we can see the results of that, when the money goes so does the afb control. i know several long term beeks who have afb problems, all because they short cut afb procedures to save a few cents. now its costing them big dollars.
someone used the example of a beeks with a 50% infection rate and that they should be given a chance. the amount of years it takes to get things that bad, there is almost no hope of that person ever getting on top of it. most of the supers will be infected and i highly doubt they are going to buy in large amounts of hives only to burn them. most likely is that, at best, they will end up burning all their hives. but as they have more supers than hives to put them on they will have a stockpile in the shed which will be sold off years later to unsuspecting buyers. the exact situation we want to avoid.
compensation for beeks will mean there is no downside to having infected hives, so there is no reason for afb control. in fact around the world beeks breed infected hives so they can claim the compensation. if thats 100% beek funded, expect your afb levy to have a few zeros added to it. if its public funded, imagen the fallout when public realize they are being scammed. double so while there is the idea of making big money off manuka and the greedy sods are scamming the public. beekeeping is a small industry that can not afford to be offside with the public. the politics alone will demand that beekeeping become more regulated and controlled by politicians.

imho the testing on supers helps close the afb loophole which allowed people to infect other peoples hives via the supers.

on another note, there is talk of a possible big increase in hives required for pollination. of course pollination is a great time for diseases to be spread amongst bee hives, which will make things so much worse. all of us beeks need to lift our game to stop the spread of pests and diseases.