making oxalic strips

[tristan]

small update:
got some time in the hives yesterday and a chance to look at the OAE strips after 4 weeks. a lot of them heavily 'eaten', tho quite variable from hive to hive. didn't see any chomped in half and dropped down. quite a few had about half the strip left. so at this stage i still think its only good for 4 weeks, anything more than that is a bonus.

 

[Alastair]

My experience was they got chewed a lot more in spring than they did in autumn.

I took chewing as a sign they were probably working because there was obviously a lot of bee contact.

But what I saw was the same as you Tristan, far as chewing goes there can be great variability from one hive to another and the reason was often not very obvious.

 

[tristan]

My experience was they got chewed a lot more in spring than they did in autumn.

I took chewing as a sign they were probably working because there was obviously a lot of bee contact.

But what I saw was the same as you Tristan, far as chewing goes there can be great variability from one hive to another and the reason was often not very obvious.

my suspicion at the mo is its brood rearing related. but also acid content. how fast the acid reduces in the strips may influence how fast they remove them. which is why they don't remove them from day 1. also i found in my earlier testing they don't touch any strip outside of the brood.
the problem with chewing is it may indicate not much acid left, but also a reduction in surface area (hung strips require about double surface area compared to flat pads).
why randy oliver seams to have different results (with nz staples) i don't know. his had similar to less removal at 8 weeks. does double FD broods make a difference?

 

[NatureAlley]

A question to Tristan, Alasdair and others who have experience with OA strips... Have you ever observed a clear relationship between strips being chewed or not and efficacy?
Last season, much to my surprise, none of my hives displayed extensive chewing, but mites dropped as usual.

 

[Alastair]

For me, they have given good mite kills whether chewed or not, unless the reason for no chewing is badly placed and not enough bee activity and contact around them.

 

[tristan]

A question to Tristan, Alasdair and others who have experience with OA strips... Have you ever observed a clear relationship between strips being chewed or not and efficacy?
Last season, much to my surprise, none of my hives displayed extensive chewing, but mites dropped as usual.

i think randy oliver had it in his early testing that chewing is not required. its walking and cleaning it that removes the acid off the surface.
what concerns me with the chewing is the opposite. that with half chewed out strips there is not enough surface area left to get enough acid on the bees to kill the mites.

also i have not tested for efficacy, simply because we can't run mites high enough to get clear results without the hives crashing. (we did mite counts many many years ago when testing thymol)
my mite testing has been very limited, enough to show it kills mites. i'll take randy's and others word for it, or more accurately the results the publish.

of interest the Swedish sponge wasn't to bad, very little removed. the bamboo cloth almost all of it was removed.

 

[tristan]

more updates:

i can't recall if i mentioned previously that the strips used last year where a bit different that the original ones i tested with, and the new ones didn't get chew out quite so badly. however i'm also told that higher acid amounts tend to keep the bees from chewing them so much. so possibly a 1:1 ratio or 1:1.2 would be better @yesbut
i wonder how much brood space pressure plays into that. randy olivers testing is on double broods, but we use single broods which are a bit undersized for the brood.


i've just done a quick and dirty test on making the staples (as per beequips setup).

soakage time weight gross per 480 strips
normal floating
start 7.62 kg 7.44 kg
43 min 14.28 (+6.66) 14.38 (+6.94)
34 min 16.10 (+1.82) 16.40 (+2.02)
60 min 16.54 (+0.44) 16.96 (+0.56)
66 min 16.82 (+0.28) 17.24 (+0.28)
overnight 18hrs 17.26 (+0.44) 17.72 (+0.45)


gross strip weight 31.79g 33.13g
dry strip 11.70g
acid mixture per strip 20.09g 21.43g
strip acid content 8.36 8.57
strip glycerin content 12.54 12.86

note: gross weight includes mixture sitting on top and clinging to sides of the strips and gear. if its colder that amount can go up making strips seam heavier.

the normal is per beequip setup with weights holding the strips down as they tend to float.
the floating is using the kit upside down and holding it down. that allows the strips to float in the mixture and they push down as they expand.
it seams weighting the strips, to stop them floating, slows down the uptake and reduces the max uptake of the mixture. unfortunately, time constants (boss left it to the last minute) meant that i could not test keeping the rubber band on. beequip recommends taking the rubber bands off, but thats not in the instructions and the hobby version leaves them on. i suspect that the pressure from the rubber band would reduce the uptake of the mix a bit.

whats interesting is the mixture doesn't get between the strips, it soaks in from the edge like the buddle is a solid block. i pulled a bundle apart when weighing and it was actually bone dry in the center even after a few hours.
this is why it takes so long to absorb the mix.

also only the floating got close to target strip weight. doing it as per instructions it falls a bit short.
of course the question is does that matter?

 

[Alastair]

Same problem I had, getting the mix through the central strips if they are laid out flat. Maybe the Haycock method of having them wound around in a circular shape in a bucket would solve that.

 

[yesbut]

Who'd be a beekeeper....one darn problem after another....

 

[tristan]

Who'd be a beekeeper....one darn problem after another....

its fun to solve problems

 

[Alastair]

Agreed, when you are an oldy like me I think the problem solving helps stave off dementia.

 

[Raymond Scott]

Agreed, when you are an oldy like me I think the problem solving helps stave off dementia.

I was also having problems getting to the weights stated by beequip. on my last mix put the tub soaking the strips in the hotwater cupboard for 48 hours and then drained for 48 hours. The average weigh from a sample of 20 strips was 31.5.

problem solved

 

[tristan]

I was also having problems getting to the weights stated by beequip. on my last mix put the tub soaking the strips in the hotwater cupboard for 48 hours and then drained for 48 hours. The average weigh from a sample of 20 strips was 31.5.

problem solved

thats still a bit short from the 34-35g beequip says.

i think i have it in a previous post somewhere about the importance of keeping the strips hot when soaking and draining. unfortunately my hot water cupboard was to cold for it to work.
if you bag them, leave them for a few weeks, they should come out dry as a bone. you do not want to be putting them in the hive with jelly on the outside.

i was toying with another way, putting the required amount of mix in a bag with the strips, sealing it (vac pac?) and then simply leave them in a hot enough spot for a day. use a chilly bin etc with some heating or even hot water bottles to maintain the heat. or a hot enough hot water cupboard.
that way it they can soak it all up and you don't have to pack wet strips. that should be an easy simple way as long as you can measure accurately and have somewhere hot enough for long enough.

 

[tristan]

small update:
left one lot of strips soaking over the weekend (~3 days total). weight went up a tiny tiny amount which could simply be mixture not draining off so well as it was a bit colder. so realistically leaving them soaking for longer than over night doesn't gain anything.

 

[Alastair]

That's what I found also.

 

[Raymond Scott]

I note Beequip have a new video on making the strips. Some improvements in their previous recommendations.

 

[tristan]

commercial version. there is also a hobby version.

this is the throw it in and leave it to heat up method which is absolutely dislike. i do not like not stirring. just like cooking the bottom gets hotter than the top. plus the big factor is its slow. you should be able to do two batches a day with one boiler easy enough. when you start making them by the thousands, speed is king.

 

[tristan]

tiny update :
i had some left over strips (the rest are currently in the hives) so i'm trying freezing them.
so far they don't seam to go solid. the main benefit is nice dry storage.
i'll keep them in the freezer for a few months and check there is nothing weird happening, and i will have to work out how to defrost them.

 

[Gerrit]

tiny update :
i had some left over strips (the rest are currently in the hives) so i'm trying freezing them.
so far they don't seam to go solid. the main benefit is nice dry storage.
i'll keep them in the freezer for a few months and check there is nothing weird happening, and i will have to work out how to defrost them.

I am just wondering what your reason is to put them in the freezer. I have had them just in big plastic bags, not particular well sealed and they come out next year in the same condition. As long as they are not in a particular damp place, I think storage is not much of an issue. Have had experience now a number of years and really rely on them.

 

[tristan]

I am just wondering what your reason is to put them in the freezer. I have had them just in big plastic bags, not particular well sealed and they come out next year in the same condition. As long as they are not in a particular damp place, I think storage is not much of an issue. Have had experience now a number of years and really rely on them.

dry storage.
even after a few months in a dehumidified room, wrapped up in cling film, they still soak up a bit of moisture.

any chance you have some handy you could post some pics up of ?