In all seriousness, I think you just described that proposed commodity levy in a nutshell James
Matters of concern.
- Thread starter James
- Start date
Well Humpty Dumpty .... The commodity levy !
Thankyou John .... Whats happening with the commodity levy ?
Here we all are grumbling about low prices and wrack and ruin .... and the levy , if administered properly might build the ladder to escape outta the hole.
The other thing of course is hive yield . I can make a pretty good living at $5.50/kg if my hives are bringing in 60 or 70kg ..... and that comes down to experience , skill, and attention to detail .... young queens and plenty of feed .
Thankyou John .... Whats happening with the commodity levy ?
Here we all are grumbling about low prices and wrack and ruin .... and the levy , if administered properly might build the ladder to escape outta the hole.
The other thing of course is hive yield . I can make a pretty good living at $5.50/kg if my hives are bringing in 60 or 70kg ..... and that comes down to experience , skill, and attention to detail .... young queens and plenty of feed .
but then there is 5 bosses who all want to do it 5 different ways.
btw 350k is on the cheap side for the whole setup. even for a medium plant and buildings, your looking at around a million.
What is also not rocket science James - ApiNZ is voluntary. Fewer membership subscriptions, less money. Less money - fewer/no Scandanavian sales trips.
OK -Can't get my beekeeping skills to be IT perfect.
John F - I think the past is very important, as is the now and the future. you state that you think others referring to the past is tiresome. For those that were honest, good beekeepers in the period that you refer to it is not tiresome. There was a lot going on in the background with the AFB agency and the NBA that you, I think are very unaware of. It was not a nice period. Yet you think it is your right to critique those involved. I think a lot of those people were incredibly honest, and the industry has a lot to be thankful of those individuals, and I think you have been negatively critiquing successful passionate beekeepers and business people. If it were not for these people, we would still be in the dark ages.
I will put my money on any guy/couple that have inspected tens of thousands of hives in their lifetime and successfully run a business. Unfortunately these two attributes are not currently respected by different sectors involved in the industry. Whilst every industry needs scientists and academia, every industry needs successful practical people at the coalface.
Re your critique on the dogs. I am all for the dogs, and I have contributed financially as an individual to their research. If it's good enough for various NZ govt depts then I believe its good enough for the beekeeping industry.
Now....., back to your fixation on the levy and the fact that it failed. That's history, how it happened, and the industry whatever way they voted have to deal with this fact.. My personal thoughts, for what they are worth, are that there will be a levy on beekeepers, but I would like to see it focused at all beekeepers. At the end of the day, why should commercial beekeepers fund a levy that will benefit the whole of the beekeeping community?
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Possibly because the alternative is endless discussion ?
You misunderstand me Maggie - my issue is the practice of blaming what is essentially a new agency compared to 20 years ago. I am not criticising anybody - it is more with the practice of saying there are current issues with the agency, when in reality the beef was with something that happened 15-20 years ago. As for being aware of what did and didn't happen, I regularly check and consult with those who *were* involved then. Sorry if you take it personally - it is not directed at any particular beekeeper(s). But beekeepers going on at me about the agency of that time and using it to broadbrush the current work? Yep, tiresome.
"if its good enough for them . ." is not scientific rigour Maggie. I am not critiqueing the dogs - personally I think they will work. But at the moment, the scientific evidence goes as far as the dogs can smell pure spores isolated in a sensory chamber. As others have said, nothing is stopping you from running dogs through your hives - go for it !
And now I'm laughing. I dont have a fixation on the levy. It has been others suggesting marketing, research into dogs/honey nectar sources/varroa treatments and I am merely pointing out that all these questions and topics were designed to be covered by the levy. I agree about focussing it on all beekeepers but hobbiests to not typically make any financial return on their hives .. .plus (from memory) the commodity levy act meant it was the product being traded (ie honey) that attracted the levy. But I might be remembering that incorrectly. . . .
No I didn't take it personally. The thing is that some of the contributors to this thread have not only been good beekeepers and business people, they have invested heavily out of their own pockets for research, some undertaken thousands of hours of volunteer work for the industry and have never expected monetary remuneration, and some of these volunteers have been subjected to much abuse and bullying.
The industry is at a very critical stage, and we all have to stand back, have good discussion and consider all views (past, present, and what the future may hold). In many parts of NZ there is not the opportunity to have discussion. Discussion is not only about hearing others views, its about - gosh perhaps we need to think differently.
Sorry, who exactly has been subject to abuse and bullying in this thread ?
Past is all well and good to visit. Just don’t live there
I don't think your constant allegations that run along the lines of good people being bullied, are constructive. They are vague and never substantiated, just a conversation piece.
Most people especially the good people you always infer, are strong enough to accept valid criticism, and reject criticism that is not valid. If this supposed bullying is even happening.
What do you propose doing about that?
IE, how to advance beyond talking about it, whatever it is, and what should we actually be talking about that is not already talked about?
What should we think differently about that we are not already thinking about?
I just say that because despite the current state of the industry, I believe that NZ beekeepers are a highly innovative people and many among us are always on the lookout for new ways and ideas. Which contrary to some popular wisdom, does not mean we necessarily have to throw out the old.
It would be helpful if saying we have to talk about new things, to say what these new things are that you have in mind. Otherwise it's all hui, no doey.
It would be helpful if saying we have to talk about new things, to say what these new things are that you have in mind. Otherwise it's all hui, no doey.
so lets take this back to the beginning.
James wants to sell his crop and get the bees moved on. No honey buyers, or well low honey buyers = no business buyer.
Maybe dig a big hole aye.. sad but true. Besides, even if you slog yourself for that 100 ton, is that sustainable??
There are too many hives here. Canada has a similar number but there's a lot of land there (tho lots north and not accessible). They do run honey cops. And they do get better prices for their no manuka than we do. But they have also been through some pretty rough prices in recent history, and I think the coop has positively developed and evolved over time.
I think that quite a few bigger beekeepers are trying to break into overseas markets themselves, and in effect competing with each other for market share. So many labels with Unique Our Story/about Us rhetoric, much of it tentative. Imagine combining all that energy!! Divide and die we do.
Anyway, this forum is so frustrating. Who's really reading this? There are some contributors... but who else?? Show yourself! Or there is no one really. Like the vacuum of space.
Some say "share what your are offered/paid" and you get 3! yes three people open enough to share the numbers. Frazz it was your idea to share, but you either don't want to/have not sold/or have no offer to share with us. Frustrating.
James, I thought about that refrigerated container idea. I don't think you can export bees in hiveware?? Reefers can work, as they do have a reticulated air supply and the chill needed. Maybe you should have shaken every last bee, store all that gear for selling (or burning..) later. If onto it, requeen in spring, and sell her with a package??
Has a buyer turned up for that 100 ton?
thats normal with any forum. very few people contribute and most are simply silent watches. plus people come and go all the time.
unfortunately it was bad timing with the forum restarting from scratch and the downturn at the same time. as soon as the money goes away, bees are no longer is the hot new thing and all those "hobbyists" disappear.
keep in mind that a lot of the time your not just answering a question but talking to the silent watches.
Huh, sounds like some arguing developing here, I think you all should have a glass of something and sit back and enjoy that the end of the season is near, then realise that we are what we are, so we have to work with what we got. Looks to me that the majority of beek's doesn't want a co op, at least at the moment, which is a bit sad, but not the end of the industry. And people don't like to share honey prices publicly, so what? It's sort of interesting, but no more than that. And why would I share business information with my competitor? Again a co op would take care of some of that attitude, but we don't have one. At the moment, maybe one day again, who knows? So it's everyone on their own, but then....isn't that exactly what beek's are good at?? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a co op in nz again, but no point taking a horse to water if it doesn't want to drink.....cheers, I'm having one!
In that case what is it that some folks are saying we should start talking about that we are not now?
Still waiting to be enlightened.
Magnolia she ain't sitting at home having a glass of something. She's off to the boozer to meet a good group of ex ABH guys who were all my customers, for a good ol fashioned chin wag and lots of laughs along the way. That's one way on how one gets enlightened.
Well I got $5kg for my pasture bush last season and I haven't been told if it will be more than that this season.
The good news is my buyer has rung me 3 times to see if I've got honey in a drum yet . He doesn't buy Manuka which I've got most of the last 3 seasons sitting in a shed , my Manuka buyers aren't interested at present.
Got 1 more yard to get off this week and get the supers to the extraction plant .
Bit late I know but we had to get the queen rearing out of the way first .
A honey buyer hasn't paid a customer so he hasn't paid me for queens so that sucks a bit ! Fingers crossed for this week
I've started my other job of pregnancy scanning milking goats and sheep . Handy to have income outside the bee industry
We are not the only industry in the doldrums, The milking goat co-op has down graded payments , so they are basically covering costs .
No real market for goats , as most are downsizing to reduce costs , production has been pegged to 80% of shareholding
1 client has merged 2 farms into 1 and renting the shed out on decommissioned farm .
Another has got his farm up for auction at end of month , he's had enough but wether he can get out is the question.
I get to cheer them up by telling them how poor the honey industry is doing 🤣
Just pinging you on this question I asked @Maggie ?
What are the different 3rd and 4th varroa treatments people are using? It seems it is Tairawhiti's turn to get hammered by varroa (various reasons including inability to get to hives to treat earlier) but if reinvasion is soaring, what are people using to knock down varroa?
To be fair, questions were asked and then the author of the questions never responded as you said. Don't blame you for frustration @Gino de Graaf
Me, I'm still just doing 2 treatments a year, mostly bayvarol this autumn. If you have to treat more than 2 times a year it means whatever you are doing isn't working.
And it's not that I haven't tried other things, I was using oxalic acid before Philbee got his first beehive, and I wrote a thread many years ago on the old forum about FA treatments, both flash with a fume board, and slower with Nassenheider.
tried other things like confining the queen etc, and been lead down the garden path by purveyors of ideas that don't work such as small cell.
I believe I've gone full circle and now just do 2 treatments a year with standard products. Less work and all things considered including productivity etc, less cost.