AFB plan review

[John B]

I guess because I put in a submission I have just been invited to attend a webinar on the subject.
Does anyone know what a webinar is and how to go about getting on it. I have heard that word and guess it something to do with computers.

 

[Trevor Gillbanks]

I have received an invite also. I am interested in your answer.

 

[StephenB]

Hi John - Any suggestions on how this election would work, and what type of voting system?

I would set up a board of 5 people. 2 would be government appointments. These appointments would professional governance people and one would be the chairmen.

The other 3 would come from the beekeeping industry. There would be a rotation system in place. There would be mandatory governance training. May be the newbies would attend board meetings for 12 months for training before there term starts

Maybe a rotation of 3 years with re-election allowed only once. total term 6 years plus one year as a trainee
Election held once a year voters from registered levy payers. 1 vote for every 500 hives owned

This gives all beekeepers a say,
The appointees keep the governance process on track

 

[StephenB]

Irony abounds...

The NBA starting in 1975 collected a levy based on hive numbers for all bkprs with 50+ hives.

For a range of reasons relating mostly to declarations, under-reporting and clear definitions of 'a hive', the NBA chose in 1996 to proceed with an apiary number-based levy, using the Commodity Levy Act.

Literally some of the same individuals who opposed the change to apiaries way back then are now upset that the levy has gone back to per hive...

Go figure...

The fact is the AFB PMP has failed to reach the goal of eradication
We need to decide if eradication is a worth while achievable goal. Continuing with the same old format and bully boy tactics will it will continue to fail

We need a new approach Nick, why dont you join the team that wants a new approach

 

[Mummzie]

I guess because I put in a submission I have just been invited to attend a webinar on the subject.
Does anyone know what a webinar is and how to go about getting on it. I have heard that word and guess it something to do with computers.

A webinar is a web seminar. Its computer based, and when you register for it, you will be sent an email with a link. As long as you have adequate broadband speed and your sound settings correct, you should be able to watch and listen to the presenter. There will be the ability to send questions.
There should be no need to download anything, and you can forward the email link to someone PC savy and you can go to their place to watch it.
Unlike zoom, you do not see all the other participants, and they do not see you
You can have as many other people watching the screen as will fit around it

BTW- did you mean to say Elections rather than Alexis in your earlier post?

 

[Hector Wong]

I guess because I put in a submission I have just been invited to attend a webinar on the subject.
Does anyone know what a webinar is and how to go about getting on it. I have heard that word and guess it something to do with computers.

A webinar is just a seminar held on the web where you attend using a computer or smart phone rather than attending in a hall.

I received an invitation to. It would have gone out to all levy payers. There are 3 sessions to choose from.

 

[bighands]

I received an invite to the webinar as well. I will be joining in on July 1st. I would like to see every beekeeper take part

 

[Maggie]

I received an invite to the webinar as well. I will be joining in on July 1st. I would like to see every beekeeper take part

Yes that would be great. Today, we have had a storm, and internet has been intermittent. Hopefully that won't happen with the PMP webinar. It's actually v surprising how many beekeepers don't have internet or mobile phone access. With my tutorials, I sometimes have to deal with beekeepers in remote areas, and it surprising how many have to walk to a hill to make a ph call. I do believe them, because I have apiaries in mid Canty that don't have mobile ph or internet access.

 

[John B]

Alexis. Sounds like I should have checked the results of my voice recognition software more carefully. On the other hand if I didn't have voice recognition software my spelling in general would be far worse. Some words I can do most of the time but others like seven, honey, varoa I struggle with. Yes I know varoa has two R but it is a word I had to teach my computer and I got it wrong and I have no idea how to correct it.

 

[Maggie]

Sounds like I should have checked the results of my voice recognition software more carefully.

Voice recognition is tricky, cos it's often to do with accent. When people leave me a voice message, so I don't have to go through the hoopla of listening to it, for an extra $1 a month Spark have a voicemail app. It's not great with accents, but I do get the phone number and I have always been able to use my detective skills to work out what people have left a voice message about.

 

[Alastair]

There was also an issue for commercial outfits relying heavily on pollination contracts. Often these contracts are for 10-12 hives (sometimes less hives) per contract, and whilst these commercial outfits had as many or more hives than other commercial outfits in other parts of the country whose income sources and apiary practises differed, the pollination outfits were paying per apiary and by taking it to a hive levy this has decreased their levy to the AFB PMP.

That was not the case.

The levy is calculated based on how things stand at March 31st. Nobody doing pollination at that time.

 

[JohnF]

The fact is the AFB PMP has failed to reach the goal of eradication
We need to decide if eradication is a worth while achievable goal. Continuing with the same old format and bully boy tactics will it will continue to fail

We need a new approach Nick, why dont you join the team that wants a new approach

As you were on the board Stephen, was the plan working then? Numbers suggest not ie it was increasing as a percentage. So what exactly has failed here? Is your beef with ApiNZ or the board you used to be on?
I am genuinely curious as to whether you have always felt these issues or is it an ApiNZ thing?

 

[Maggie]

That was not the case.

The levy is calculated based on how things stand at March 31st. Nobody doing pollination at that time.

Because of pollination contracts, our apiaries in this area are generally 10-12 hives per apiary; whether they are on pollination or non pollination. That is a fact, and it was instrumental in how people in this area voted, whether you contest it or not.

I have spent since the mid 1990s working in this area. I am well aware that you did work at some stage for Airborne, but how many seasons did you work in this area?

 

[StephenB]

As you were on the board Stephen, was the plan working then? Numbers suggest not ie it was increasing as a percentage. So what exactly has failed here? Is your beef with ApiNZ or the board you used to be on?
I am genuinely curious as to whether you have always felt these issues or is it an ApiNZ thing?

My concern is the way the governance has been approached.
The reason I end up on the AFB committee was because I identified that the NBA exec members had sort of decided that they were not responsible for the AFB PMP. When Frans left the NBA Exec there was no longer any over site from the NBA. As I was the only voice reminding the NBA Exec that they were solely responsible for the PMP. I was given the job.
The committee/board are just the employees of the NBA Exec - This is clearly laid out in the order in council. If any thing goes wrong it solely the responsibility the NBA Exec or now ApiNZ. Another thing to remember that under the new health safety act The directors of a organization will be held accountable Ie APiNZ.

I have an email from a couple of years ago from Karen that states that ApiNZ board no longer discuss the AFB PMP governance reports at the ApiNZ board meetings. This was in response to a OIA request asking for a copy of minutes of ApiNZ board meetings where the AFB PMP is discussed. And yes this part of ApiNZ meetings are subject to the OIA and the ombudsman has confirmed this.

When I joined the AFB PMP there were some good point and bad points
The good points was the idea that the PMP is a beekeeper lead plan. We had diseaseatons which got the beekeepers working together to solve local problems. But then Manuka greed came along and beekeepers could not longer trust others.

Many of the functions of the plan and been farmed out and the committee had lost control of them. Getting proper reporting was a bit hit and miss.
I pushed for the governance policy which myself and Ricky put together. My aim for this policy was to ensure that a role over policy was put in place and to define what the AFB PMP should be report back to Exec. When ApiNZ took over the governance policy was changed members of the PMP who should have rolled over and out stayed on. I don't believe levy payers were inform/consulted of the changes.

So I have reached the view that we have poor governance of the AFB PMP.
An important concept to remember that in New Zealand we have the right written in law to have an open and transparent governance of public bodies, which the PMP is.
We don't have open and transparent governance and this leads to poor performance

 

[Alastair]

I have spent since the mid 1990s working in this area. I am well aware that you did work at some stage for Airborne, but how many seasons did you work in this area?

I did almost no work on pollination with Airborne. It wasn't a thing for them back then, so I can claim no special knowledge on what they do in that area.

Up this way, the hives go back to other sites and are probably not held in those small numbers.

 

[Maggie]

.Also the possibility of having legislation on the selling of secondhand beekeeping equipment that is not associated with live hives that can be inspected.

Hi John - What is your suggestion here for legislation that is not draconian, costs the seller/buyer $0, but is effective in not transferring AFB on? What is your suggestion for equipment being stored by ex beekeepers (alive or deceased)? Should there be legislation that certain gear note being used be destroyed? I have seen plant nurseries and shabby chic secondhand shops selling wood ware (empty hives & nucs) as garden ornaments, and they have told me this stuff flies out the door, and they don't want new stuff, they want it with charm and character. Should this be legislated against?

In the past, on occasions, I have found that stored beekeeping gear by other beekeepers is a source of transmission. In one instance I had for several years apiary specific intermittent AFB, and it eventuated that unbeknownst to commercial beekeepers in this area, the source was a large amount of equipment stored from a deceased beekeeping estate, with a previous AFB history. Once the whole lot was dragged out and burnt, the AFB ceased.

I am in the process of decelerating, and have flogged off a lot of gear over the last couple of years. I give my rego & DECA numbers, and suggest the buyer, if they don't know me, contact Marco for my AFB history; which I think is a good history. It would cost the buyer a lot more to buy or build this gear, and to date this has worked for me without problem.

 

[JohnF]

My concern is the way the governance has been approached.
The reason I end up on the AFB committee was because I identified that the NBA exec members had sort of decided that they were not responsible for the AFB PMP. When Frans left the NBA Exec there was no longer any over site from the NBA. As I was the only voice reminding the NBA Exec that they were solely responsible for the PMP. I was given the job.
The committee/board are just the employees of the NBA Exec - This is clearly laid out in the order in council. If any thing goes wrong it solely the responsibility the NBA Exec or now ApiNZ. Another thing to remember that under the new health safety act The directors of a organization will be held accountable Ie APiNZ.

I have an email from a couple of years ago from Karen that states that ApiNZ board no longer discuss the AFB PMP governance reports at the ApiNZ board meetings. This was in response to a OIA request asking for a copy of minutes of ApiNZ board meetings where the AFB PMP is discussed. And yes this part of ApiNZ meetings are subject to the OIA and the ombudsman has confirmed this.

When I joined the AFB PMP there were some good point and bad points
The good points was the idea that the PMP is a beekeeper lead plan. We had diseaseatons which got the beekeepers working together to solve local problems. But then Manuka greed came along and beekeepers could not longer trust others.

Many of the functions of the plan and been farmed out and the committee had lost control of them. Getting proper reporting was a bit hit and miss.
I pushed for the governance policy which myself and Ricky put together. My aim for this policy was to ensure that a role over policy was put in place and to define what the AFB PMP should be report back to Exec. When ApiNZ took over the governance policy was changed members of the PMP who should have rolled over and out stayed on. I don't believe levy payers were inform/consulted of the changes.

So I have reached the view that we have poor governance of the AFB PMP.
An important concept to remember that in New Zealand we have the right written in law to have an open and transparent governance of public bodies, which the PMP is.
We don't have open and transparent governance and this leads to poor performance

Thanks for a very considered reply to my genuine questions @StephenB .
My first ever activity in a beehive was on a diseasathon and I was 'is that . .?' . .'should I' and yes, I roped out AFB in a hive. Its a shame they dont happen anymore (although I believe Hawkes Bay has done them more recently @John B ?). I understood it was due to Health & safety regs rather than manuka.?

But the question I have now is, you believe that the management team are performing poorly? Is this since day dot? Since manuka? Or since AFB 2.0 took over?? Because I believe comparing the agency now with the agency of 4-5 years ago is chalk and cheese

 

[tristan]

In the past, on occasions, I have found that stored beekeeping gear by other beekeepers is a source of transmission.

much the same.
i have a few threads on the old forum about a beek who dumped hives across the fence from us.
half our hives came down with afb and went up in smoke. most of his where dead.
later on, the hives where all gone assumed they where dealt with.
then years later that person has a couple of pallets of old gear up for sale. not one lid or base (so i assume that all went up in smoke) but they had taken all the honey off and extracted it. that gear got sold to multiple people.

as we have seen multiple times, plenty of people leaving beekeeping and trying to recoup the cost anyway they can, including cleaning off any evidence of why their hives died.

 

[Maggie]

as we have seen multiple times, plenty of people leaving beekeeping and trying to recoup the cost anyway they can, including cleaning off any evidence of why their hives died.

Hmm.... so this is old gear is an issue, and it looks like this needs to be built into a review.

I think there needs to be an allowance for reputeable beekeepers onselling. When I went into business I bought 60 empty nucs, two different designs that could be split into separate colonies, off Mervyn Cloake. Those nucs served me well, and a year ago they were onsold to two different outfits. They were really old nucs, but they had been built well, and preserved properly when built. It was great to get the specialised gear, of designs that were not available from beekeeping suppliers. I also made up another design of specialised wooden nucs myself with the help of ABH staff in their workshop, and have onsold these also. So, for me getting that second hand specialised gear saved a lot of time, stress, money, and gave me diversity to deal with different situations and practises.

 

[Alastair]

Could be about the buyer as much as the seller.

If a brand new beekeeper buys used gear he will mostly get lucky. But if he doesn't get lucky and he gets AFB, often doesn't recognise until hives are dead and surrounding beekeepers have been infected.

An experienced beekeeper will first off get a feel for wether the gear and previous owner seem kosher or not. But after that if he does make a mistake and buys infected gear, he gets AFB, but recognises it, contains it, eliminates it, and does not pose a risk to anyone else.