ApiNZ and Japan

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Well ..... it's been a long day and I'm about done for the season pointing my bum to the sun .... tomorrow we have an RMP so tonight I sought counsel with the Doctor .....
Beekeeping is all about being in the right place at the right time so your bees do what they are supposed to do ..... make honey.

This morning I got lassoed into the office and told to sort out the Hive Hub with where we put what over the summer so that it all gels tomorrow when the RMP man asks what drum came from where.

So while minimum wage Bee man was figuring out how to stack pallets of boxes on the truck and rack em down so they did'nt come off on the big hill through the pines ..... I wrestled with the computer.

The new Hivehub system worked well, to give them their due.... but I hate sitting in the office .... it seems like such a freaking waste of time and is totally unproductive, and I had this thought that how many unproductive people are out there looking productive sitting at their computers, all week long ? I don't think we'll even go there tonight.
You only got to look at the shemaozzle with all that rejected Glyphoste honey in Japan.
If the computers and traceability had worked, the honey would never have been sent to Japan in the first place .....

Which brings me back to thread in question .....

Where was APINZ ..... sitting on their computers I suppose.
I believe the Japanese requirement of <0.01ppm has been in place for a long time. It certainly is not new. It is just a case of Japan starting to enforce it.
 
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Jesus Christ James ..... I sometimes sign my missives as JC ...... but we'll move on eh ..... Blasphemy and all that.
Don'ty get me wrong Grant, I'm not slam dunking APINZ or sayin they could do better. .... there is no doubt we as an industry need something to draw us together .... it's just that ....
We work very hard to make a dollar . I'll reiterate that ..... WE WORK VERY HARD TO MAKE DOLLAR ..... I don't like squandering those dollars on things that I feel represent lack a bit of value.

Today we been drum sampling. Drum sampling involves taking a core sample and transfering it into a sample pot for prospective buyers to look at.
The missus found a core sampler on the Ecrotek website for something like $340. I was quite forthright and told her not to squander our resources, and went out to the shed and found a piece of 25 ml stainless and fashioned a food grade plunger to push the sample out.
Apart from my time, I saved myself $340.

Do you get my drift. We are all after value for dollar .

To go back to subject .... I f I look at my $1500 sub to APINZ ..... I have never paid that, and have sold very little honey for three years.
Fair enough I hear some people say ..... But .....
Many others have paid the sub, and still complain of honey sitting in the shed with rude offers on it.

For a vibrant industry we need to sell what we make at a profit. An organistaion that wants to organise and lead us needs gain our confidence and demonstrate that our subs are well spent and return an X amount of return on our investment , whether that be by lobbying Gvt or drawing marketers together to present a united front of what we make to the world.

The honey video is a good start, but why not go a step further and talk with Beef and Lamb and throw in a few more dollars and gain some table space on their international road shows.
I for one would contribute to that.

Anything after that .... Trees for Bees, Training programs ..... willow aphid and AFB is sort of esoteric.
 
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It’s a big ask .. in my mind.. to expect an industry body to sell my honey for me.. I think by belonging to an industry body.. means i am contributing in some way towards the sale of my honey.. through the big picture..and it can be a rather large landscape picture... not a self portrait.
 
3,365
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Hawkes Bay
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To me the industry appears completely fractured.
From my point of view Grant the industry doesn't just appear to be completely fractured, it is completely fractured.
There has always been some animosity in the NZ beekeeping world whether it was North\South, honey marketing authority supporters\detractors, people that just didn't like each other or even people that thought beekeepers (in this case my father) selling that rubbish manuka honey for the same prices good clover brought the industry into disrepute. Despite all this I don't ever remember somebody needing a hand and not getting and you did it for free . If someone got sick or hurt you help them until they were better, sometimes they were friends and sometimes they weren't but you still helped. There are still people I would help but there are also some that if they got sick or hurt I would have trouble not laughing and that is pretty sad.
As ye sow, so shall ye reap.
 
117
160
Gisborne Tairawhiti
Experience
Researcher
For a vibrant industry we need to sell what we make at a profit. An organistaion that wants to organise and lead us needs gain our confidence and demonstrate that our subs are well spent and return an X amount of return on our investment , whether that be by lobbying Gvt or drawing marketers together to present a united front of what we make to the world.

The honey video is a good start, but why not go a step further and talk with Beef and Lamb and throw in a few more dollars and gain some table space on their international road shows.
I for one would contribute to that.

Anything after that .... Trees for Bees, Training programs ..... willow aphid and AFB is sort of esoteric.

Sorry James but this smacks of the 'do one more thing for us'. If I flip it around - and we look at the situation a few years ago - then it seemed, we're making plenty of money without your help, why do we need industry bodies? Everyone spoke of a honey bubble but no-one wanted to believe it, seemingly. Presenting a united front is an excellent idea . .but first of all, you have to unite ! Accept the differences but unite to achieve the goal.
 
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117
160
Gisborne Tairawhiti
Experience
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If someone got sick or hurt you help them until they were better, sometimes they were friends and sometimes they weren't but you still helped. There are still people I would help but there are also some that if they got sick or hurt I would have trouble not laughing and that is pretty sad.
As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

We lost a well-respected beekeeper up this way suddenly a few weeks ago . . .another commercial has stepped in to manage his hives until spring or until they're sold.
 
5,515
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canterbury
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Sorry James but this smacks of the 'do one more thing for us'. If I flip it around - and we look at the situation a few years ago - then it seemed, we're making plenty of money without your help, why do we need industry bodies? Everyone spoke of a honey bubble but no-one wanted to believe it, seemingly. Presenting a united front is an excellent idea . .but first of all, you have to unite ! Accept the differences but unite to achieve the goal.
I thought that might stir your juices. I'm not asking you to do one more thing for us. I'm just commenting that APINZ does'nt quite fit the agenda in our neck of the woods at the moment..
The catch cry around here right now is "Take cover and everyman for himself" .....
 
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62
47
New Zealand
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International
Jesus Christ James ..... I sometimes sign my missives as JC ...... but we'll move on eh ..... Blasphemy and all that.
Don'ty get me wrong Grant, I'm not slam dunking APINZ or sayin they could do better. .... there is no doubt we as an industry need something to draw us together .... it's just that ....
We work very hard to make a dollar . I'll reiterate that ..... WE WORK VERY HARD TO MAKE DOLLAR ..... I don't like squandering those dollars on things that I feel represent lack a bit of value.

Today we been drum sampling. Drum sampling involves taking a core sample and transfering it into a sample pot for prospective buyers to look at.
The missus found a core sampler on the Ecrotek website for something like $340. I was quite forthright and told her not to squander our resources, and went out to the shed and found a piece of 25 ml stainless and fashioned a food grade plunger to push the sample out.
Apart from my time, I saved myself $340.

Do you get my drift. We are all after value for dollar .

To go back to subject .... I f I look at my $1500 sub to APINZ ..... I have never paid that, and have sold very little honey for three years.
Fair enough I hear some people say ..... But .....
Many others have paid the sub, and still complain of honey sitting in the shed with rude offers on it.

For a vibrant industry we need to sell what we make at a profit. An organistaion that wants to organise and lead us needs gain our confidence and demonstrate that our subs are well spent and return an X amount of return on our investment , whether that be by lobbying Gvt or drawing marketers together to present a united front of what we make to the world.

The honey video is a good start, but why not go a step further and talk with Beef and Lamb and throw in a few more dollars and gain some table space on their international road shows.
I for one would contribute to that.

Anything after that .... Trees for Bees, Training programs ..... willow aphid and AFB is sort of esoteric.
Why is non profitability or profitability always the result of the price and never cost? I only ever hear that the price is to low. I never hear that the industry needs to be more efficient, increase yields, increase kg per man hour.
 
117
160
Gisborne Tairawhiti
Experience
Researcher
I thought that might stir your juices. I'm not asking you to do one more thing for us. I'm just commenting that APINZ does'nt quite fit the agenda in our neck of the woods at the moment..
The catch cry around here right now is "Take cover and everyman for himself" .....
:) Ha, nothing stirred here yet James. And yes, can appreciate things are very tight. I also understand the 'take cover' aspect of it . . as long as that cover isnt 'head in sand' ! (y)
 
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canterbury
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Why is non profitability or profitability always the result of the price and never cost? I only ever hear that the price is to low. I never hear that the industry needs to be more efficient, increase yields, increase kg per man hour.
Hmmm ... I hear you SSP ...... ther is no doubt that efficient opeators can weather the storm.
We run 1400 hives, Main man and me with another casual hand on for honey harvest.
We extract our own honey .
It's a big job.
Because I don't get paid, I do all the overtime when it comes to shifting bees and druming off and melting wax on the weekends.

We budget on 30kg's a hive ...... at $4.00/kg we cover our costs, but I don't draw a wage.
We did good this year, probably averaged 50kg /hive.
At $4.00/kg I probably made $15/hr.
I think that is below the minimum wage and I'm wondering when the missus is gonna to be hauled up before the courts on account of flaunting the laws re the minimum wage, not to mention holiday pay, sick days, days of in lieu .... I don't think we'll even go there.

Yield and honey price is everything . A good operator can probably double the national average yield. Double the honey price and the operator might actually make a dollar to support his family in some sort of a lifestyle ...... food on the table perhaps.
Honey price is evrything, but it is something we have no control over.
 

yesbut

Staff member
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Nelson
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Honey price is evrything, but it is something we have no control over.
Hhmmmmm.....I've always been led to believe that when there's an oversupply of something the price of that something drops. Madly tearing around adding to the existing oversupply doesn't have any affect ?
 

tommy dave

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178
mostly wellington, sometimes dunedin
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Why is non profitability or profitability always the result of the price and never cost? I only ever hear that the price is to low. I never hear that the industry needs to be more efficient, increase yields, increase kg per man hour.
i've read heaps of commentary on this forum on costs per kg to produce on this forum, perhaps as many or more as revenue per kg.
literally hundreds of posts talking about new entrants and their costs per kg to produce, reference to beekeeping on the smell of an oily rag, posts indicating that those with costs above $x/kg are getting their just desserts, talking about cost to produce in year x and the associated price still allowing profit, etc.
 
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i've read heaps of commentary on this forum on costs per kg to produce on this forum, perhaps as many or more as revenue per kg.
literally hundreds of posts talking about new entrants and their costs per kg to produce, reference to beekeeping on the smell of an oily rag, posts indicating that those with costs above $x/kg are getting their just desserts, talking about cost to produce in year x and the associated price still allowing profit, etc.
We can agree to disagree. yes we hear about cost but not Increasing efficiency, increase yields and reducing labour cost per kg. 'Smell of an oily rag' is a little non descriptive and subjective.
We do not discuss and accept the inelasticity of non Manuka honey pricing.
By example. The world will buy as much Clover honey as New Zealand can produce if the kg price to the packer or bulk export is $4.00 or below. Above this number demand slows very rapidly. Above $5.00 and the demand tap turns off. Good packers continually invest in efficiency/automation to make these prices work and keep the packing in NZ.
So the question is. How to produce enough kgs, profitably at $4.00 per kg. If it can't be done then do something else but don't expect the world market to change direction because you feel you should be paid more. It is not worth $5 or $6 or $7 just because you think it is and because of all the hard work and effort and loving care that has gone into it. The honey is worth what it is because the market/consumer determines the price. Non Manuka is a commodity product.
 
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So the question is. How to produce enough kgs, profitably at $4.00 per kg. If it can't be done then do something else but don't expect the world market to change direction because you feel you should be paid more. It is not worth $5 or $6 or $7 just because you think it is and because of all the hard work and effort and loving care that has gone into it. The honey is worth what it is because the market/consumer determines the price. Non Manuka is a commodity product.

In fairness, I dont believe its because beekeepers *feel* they should be paid more . . . its more that current production costs may be more than $4 or an amount that leaves a profit in there.

Non Manuka is a commodity product.

Yes, and in the science session at the ApiNZ conference, one of the panel discussions will be on the science required to lift other NZ honeys out of the commodity market. Whether it be kanuka, rewarewa, tawari . . . what is needed to lift it out of the $4 per kilo area.
I can hear a number of people saying 'marketing' . . .but what do you actually have to market? ie what science is needed behind it
 
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We do not discuss and accept the inelasticity of non Manuka honey pricing.
I agree with your views on non-manuka pricing but why did you exclude manuka from your general statement.
Market forces apply to manuka the same as any other honey with the only real difference being that manuka prices have been stretched to the point of super elasticity .
As a producer I have seen a dramatic change from packers wanting everything I had to packers not really being interested and I'm certainly not the only one. Any honey is only worth what someone will pay for it.
 
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I agree with your views on non-manuka pricing but why did you exclude manuka from your general statement.
Market forces apply to manuka the same as any other honey with the only real difference being that manuka prices have been stretched to the point of super elasticity .
As a producer I have seen a dramatic change from packers wanting everything I had to packers not really being interested and I'm certainly not the only one. Any honey is only worth what someone will pay for it.
I deliberately avoided Manuka as the situation is different. The retail price has reached an affordability ceiling. The honey price fluctuates with the seasonal availability. A few $$ swing can be managed by the packer (except on 5+ and below)
I am not sure of the packers you deal with but there are those that have continued growth and require more each year and those that are static and in decline.
 
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In fairness, I dont believe its because beekeepers *feel* they should be paid more . . . its more that current production costs may be more than $4 or an amount that leaves a profit in there.



Yes, and in the science session at the ApiNZ conference, one of the panel discussions will be on the science required to lift other NZ honeys out of the commodity market. Whether it be kanuka, rewarewa, tawari . . . what is needed to lift it out of the $4 per kilo area.
I can hear a number of people saying 'marketing' . . .but what do you actually have to market? ie what science is needed behind it
Great idea. I have heard this repeated for a few years now. Unless the science has proves some definitive health benefit then I do not see where the marketable value will come from.
 
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Great idea. I have heard this repeated for a few years now. Unless the science has proves some definitive health benefit then I do not see where the marketable value will come from.
The value should be the same as any other food value. Nutrition and taste. Manuka has changed the thinking on honey from food to medicine.. and that's plain wrong.
As an amateur epicurean I value food for taste and experience. Honey ditto. I remember having rata honey on the shelves and how good it tasted with cocoa and oats etc in homemade muesli bars or on hot toast with butter.
I value honey in a white bread sandwich or poured onto porridge or as an ingredient in my muesli. Baklava without honey is not possible and dont even get ne started on glazes.

I dont like, and avoid, crappy cheese, cheap steaks, rough whiskey, young tequila and instant coffee. I buy fine tea and cook with butter not marg. I stopped eating honey until I made my own and now am competing with my kids for my spoonfuls.

At the community centre we spun out our own honey and the jars are all gone with people wanting more. This tastes like honey from my childhood is what we heard and we have people wanting more than we produced.

No where is there a hint of medical benefits being touted but the taste of good honey of a variety of tastes. Compared to the bland muck at the supermarket we have a desirable commodity.

Why cant we, like cheese and coffee and tea and ... sell on taste and variety? I'd buy that.
 
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