Boutelje extractor warning

[tristan]

tomorrows small job is to fit an earth lead to the Boutelje extractor.
there is no earth lead from the body to earth, so the whole body can become live posing major health risk.

and yes i tested it with a meter.
the older one got away with it because it connects through the bearing and it has a cast alloy bearing housing.
however the newer one has a plastic bearing housing.
the other connection point is through the little torque reaction plate. but as thats not actually bolted down (it wobbles on a stud) so the connection goes from good to non-existent, especially with a bit of dirt/honey/wax build up on it.

highly recommend fitting an earth lead from the body to the earth leads before someone has a shocking time of it.

 

[StephenB]

tomorrows small job is to fit an earth lead to the Boutelje extractor.
there is no earth lead from the body to earth, so the whole body can become live posing major health risk.

and yes i tested it with a meter.
the older one got away with it because it connects through the bearing and it has a cast alloy bearing housing.
however the newer one has a plastic bearing housing.
the other connection point is through the little torque reaction plate. but as thats not actually bolted down (it wobbles on a stud) so the connection goes from good to non-existent, especially with a bit of dirt/honey/wax build up on it.

highly recommend fitting an earth lead from the body to the earth leads before someone has a shocking time of it.

would you like to expand on what and why you are trying to Earth ?

Need to voltage source AC/DC
is a it limit switch, prox motor and so forth

 

[tristan]

would you like to expand on what and why you are trying to Earth ?

the whole body can become live posing major health risk.

while most of the setup is technically double insulated, it doesn't take much of a fault (damaged cable, water in the wrong place) for the body of the extractor to become live. which is why most metal bodied machines are earthed.
its also a really easy fix.

 

[StephenB]

while most of the setup is technically double insulated, it doesn't take much of a fault (damaged cable, water in the wrong place) for the body of the extractor to become live. which is why most metal bodied machines are earthed.
its also a really easy fix.

 

[StephenB]

Interesting take on the rules.
I think from what you have described a tad over reaction

Do you also earth your stainless steel bench top ?

I am assuming that the only mains connected device on the extractor is the electric motor. If so this is the only part that really needs earthing, which will be done via the lead used supply electricity to the motor..

Do you carry out regulator appliance checks as per nzs 3760. ( as the extractor is bolted down these standards dont really apply, but are a good starting point) ?

 

[James]

Good point.... electric motors in wet places.... perhaps they should be wired through one of those thingys that pop the botton when they short out?
A mate of mine got elocuted dead while water blasting in the extracting room.

 

[yesbut]

Your flintstone outfit is probably the only one in the country that doesn't have those pop out bottons

 

[StephenB]

Good point.... electric motors in wet places.... perhaps they should be wired through one of those thingys that pop the botton when they short out?
A mate of mine got elocuted dead while water blasting in the extracting room.

use to work at a place where we sent electric motors 1000m water depth and more

 

[tristan]

Interesting take on the rules.
I think from what you have described a tad over reaction

Do you also earth your stainless steel bench top ?

I am assuming that the only mains connected device on the extractor is the electric motor. If so this is the only part that really needs earthing, which will be done via the lead used supply electricity to the motor..

Do you carry out regulator appliance checks as per nzs 3760. ( as the extractor is bolted down these standards dont really apply, but are a good starting point) ?

its been many decades since i did appliance servicing. a stainless bench top does not have any electrical appliances attached to it. when it does those appliances are earthed eg insinkerator. even the metal siding on the garage has an earth stud and is earthed.
no the motor is not the only thing mains powered. there is also the vsd, power etc in the control box, all the power cables attached to it, and those from other machines. multiple sources of power which could lead to a live extractor body. especially with wet floor and other earth paths within arms reach.

is it bad thing to do it better than the bare minimum regulations? especially when the cost is about $1

i would not call an over reaction.
i think your reaction is ridiculously flippant.

Good point.... electric motors in wet places.... perhaps they should be wired through one of those thingys that pop the botton when they short out?
A mate of mine got elocuted dead while water blasting in the extracting room.

legal requirement these days. good thing to have especially in a wet room like we have. plus as we steam clean the extraction room.
but we also put rcd's on the 3 phase and hard wired gear (not legal requirement) but you never know when crap goes wrong.

 

[StephenB]

its been many decades since i did appliance servicing. a stainless bench top does not have any electrical appliances attached to it. when it does those appliances are earthed eg insinkerator. even the metal siding on the garage has an earth stud and is earthed.
no the motor is not the only thing mains powered. there is also the vsd, power etc in the control box, all the power cables attached to it, and those from other machines. multiple sources of power which could lead to a live extractor body. especially with wet floor and other earth paths within arms reach.

is it bad thing to do it better than the bare minimum regulations? especially when the cost is about $1

i would not call an over reaction.
i think your reaction is ridiculously flippant.


legal requirement these days. good thing to have especially in a wet room like we have. plus as we steam clean the extraction room.
but we also put rcd's on the 3 phase and hard wired gear (not legal requirement) but you never know when crap goes wrong.

always great to do it better, but no need to push panic button when nothing seems wrong, based on your description

 

[Alastair]

Should mention it to Boutelje it would be a veryt minor thing for them to fix going forward.

 

[Alastair]

no need to push panic button when nothing seems wrong,

LOL, had to laugh, that coming from you Stephen

 

[StephenB]

This one still goes round

 

[StephenB]

Small Motor I was working on a few years ago , Its still going round

 

[StephenB]

Check the bearings out !!!

 

[tristan]

Should mention it to Boutelje it would be a veryt minor thing for them to fix going forward.

doubt it.
they have power supplies in a jiffy box instead of a waterproof box. having a power source in a box that looks like its waterproof when its not is asking for trouble. that will be another fix one day.
i forgot about the fake emergency switch on the spin float. its just an soft off switch, which it already has, and doesn't kill the power to it.

 

[StephenB]

doubt it.
they have power supplies in a jiffy box instead of a waterproof box. having a power source in a box that looks like its waterproof when its not is asking for trouble. that will be another fix one day.
i forgot about the fake emergency switch on the spin float. its just an soft off switch, which it already has, and doesn't kill the power to it.

Often the killing power to a spinning load is the worst thing to do. By using the dynamic braking and other controls machine can be stopped far quicker and safer than just killing the power

 

[tristan]

Often the killing power to a spinning load is the worst thing to do. By using the dynamic braking and other controls machine can be stopped far quicker and safer than just killing the power

yes, but not much good if its on fire etc. funny enough the over pressure sensor setup kills the power, where i would have used a soft off for that.
also, what i'm looking into at the mo, is often vsd's can turn on the braking when they loose power. kill the power and the brakes kick on automatically.

to add: the E button is underrated for the full mains load, which is why i suspect they used it on the soft off instead. there has been other miss wiring and setups on that machine.

 

[StephenB]

yes, but not much good if its on fire etc. funny enough the over pressure sensor setup kills the power, where i would have used a soft off for that.
also, what i'm looking into at the mo, is often vsd's can turn on the braking when they loose power. kill the power and the brakes kick on automatically.

A high inertia load such as a spin float, extractor or any other machine running at high speed that has a bit of weight behind it can take a long time to ramp down if the power is turned off. If the machine is on fire it needs to be stopped fast. Using mechanical breaks to stop the machine dead can cause structural damage. Using the dynamic brake is the best way

If the fire is an electrical fire(ie short circuit or overload) the circuit electrical protection will cut the electrical supply. As machines get bigger temperature sensors are used to monitor the likes of bearing temps, winding temps etc.

Many large industrial switch boards are fitted with arc flash sensors and ultra sensitive smoke detectors

This all costs money. For the value of a spin float or extractor all the extra protection is not needed.

Another good braking system is DC injection breaking.

 

[StephenB]

Care must be used when selecting a device to break a current flow that is supplying an inductive load such as a motor. The back emf of the motor can arc across the contacts if they are not rated for a inductive load.

If you want to reliably kill the power to a motor you use a e stop button to control a motor rated contractor. Once again the VSD is the device for the job. The contractor is the very last option